Reds Tour
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Reds Tour
I see the Arrows are in transit on a two month end of season tour taking in India and China. Loved watching them several times this season but I can't help feeling it's a bit much for the pilots and ground crews to be doing this detachment at this time of the year. I know it's all for Britain etc but surely they all need some well earned R & R with their families not another knackering series of displays pegged onto an already tiring season? Your thoughts or is it just me ? LL
Melchett's opinion - situation normal. The Govt wants to do more and more across the world to prove it is a global player (especially post-BREXIT), rather than just a regionally player with global aspirations. That attitude is evident across large elements of Defence these days, so whilst it is probably a bit of a pain at the end of a long season, it's not particularly unusual in terms of eeking every last drop of blood from the stone and reinforcing the global UK plc picture. But I doubt as a whole this attitude stands up to rigorous scrutiny when one carefully looks at the sustainability behind these global aspirations.
Last edited by Melchett01; 2nd Oct 2016 at 18:55.
Does anyone know how this will affect training for 2017?
Usually the Reds have a couple of weeks off after their last display and then start training again for the following season.
Are they taking the new pilots over and training whilst they are on tour (I believe a former Red is rejoining the team next year)?
Usually the Reds have a couple of weeks off after their last display and then start training again for the following season.
Are they taking the new pilots over and training whilst they are on tour (I believe a former Red is rejoining the team next year)?
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I believe they are deploying with 12 Jets so maybe they will be doing some training. I agree with Melchett and would add that they may be trying for some sales in the region.
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I can't help feeling it's a bit much for the pilots and ground crews to be doing this detachment at this time of the year.
They may be working hard, but they will be well looked after and not being shot at.
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It's very surprised to see this deployment painted so negatively here; surely this is a fantastic opportunity for the RAF to show its stuff. Is it really such a massive imposition? By way of comparison, the Breitling team perform around 50 displays worldwide with seven jets. How does the Red Arrows workload compare?
footnote, passing Riyadh, nightstop Oman this eve
footnote, passing Riyadh, nightstop Oman this eve
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Will agree with Melchett and AGS on the ' PR ' selling contracts bit which is clearly what it's designed for. Dave Montenegro is saying all the good Mil stuff but, as someone has already said , how does this effect training for next season. With due regard to SirToppam's comments this sort of tour is not a 'modern Royal Air Force ' thing and has been happening for years but the main difference is a large percentage of the 'old' days tours were fitted in to the normal display season. The bosses then , rightly in my opinion , took a chunk out of the British/Euro season and arranged tours accordingly ie the 1972 USA tour.
The 'not being shot at' bit although clearly true doesn't strike a chord with me. Flying upside down, 6 feet apart at 400Kts could be seen as slightly dangerous if fatigue issues are taken into account. Human Factors anyone ?
The 'not being shot at' bit although clearly true doesn't strike a chord with me. Flying upside down, 6 feet apart at 400Kts could be seen as slightly dangerous if fatigue issues are taken into account. Human Factors anyone ?
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In my defence:
it depends on your perspective. I am talking about the last 15 to 20% of the RAF's existence. And I stand by my comment about not being shot at. They are not being shot at, and at any point they can say "sorry, it's not for me", and stop. However, my comments were not really aimed at RAFAT, so much as the others out there (and not just in the RAF) who are deployed away from their loved ones for 6 months at a time and ARE being shot at.
not a 'modern Royal Air Force ' thing
Warmer where they're going than Scampton in October I should think though-better weather too probably?
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The new guys will be back seating on the tour so will gain a lot of valuable experience, even though no actual hands on skill practice. I'm sure they'll cope. I also expect the wags will have the chance to join them at some stage. As the sainted Margaret said, Rejoice!
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Not aware of how much time landlocked1 has had in the Service but these guys do not need sympathy for their Far East Tour - they will love it - with or without WAGs. Do we allow that luxury now at tax payer expense?
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I believe that WAGs do not travel at taxpayers' expense. They pay for their own travel, but can then share their significant other's hotel accommodation which is, of course, payed for by the taxpayer. I do not begrudge them it. The Fun Police have succeeded in removing the majority of perks.
Last edited by Genstabler; 4th Oct 2016 at 21:42.
In November 1995 I was a member of the Hercules crew which supported the Reds tour of the far east. The main focus of the trip was the Langkawi Air Show.
We all assumed that the major costs were born by BAE as a very good way of showcasing the Hawk in the pursuit of overseas sales.
I thought the Reds did exactly that with their impressive displays and as an ex ground crew member of 92 when we were the RAF display team I am not easily impressed !
This came at the end of their long UK season but I did not hear any of them complain.
We all assumed that the major costs were born by BAE as a very good way of showcasing the Hawk in the pursuit of overseas sales.
I thought the Reds did exactly that with their impressive displays and as an ex ground crew member of 92 when we were the RAF display team I am not easily impressed !
This came at the end of their long UK season but I did not hear any of them complain.
