Checking on a potential 'Mitty'
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TTN
I always liked Part 3 (IIRC) of the Army List. Classified Restricted, it had a brief list of an individual's postings and, most usefully, what they preferred to be called.
So one might see: Major the Hon Eustace de Vere Fotherington-Thomas (Biffo).
I guess your erstwhile chum Rollo would be recorded as such too.
I always liked Part 3 (IIRC) of the Army List. Classified Restricted, it had a brief list of an individual's postings and, most usefully, what they preferred to be called.
So one might see: Major the Hon Eustace de Vere Fotherington-Thomas (Biffo).
I guess your erstwhile chum Rollo would be recorded as such too.
Danny, your query re. discharge.
Other than those enlisted after the war began "for the duration", as a generality, soldiers on any engagement [regular of varying periods, TF, or Special Reserve] had a Termination of Engagement date which was to be extended by one year in case of war. This was enforced: "held to serve". Even in peacetime a soldier serving in far away places with strange sounding names could be held to serve if suitable transport and shipping was not available. Hence "Doolallytap!", a form of insanity allegedly brought on by being held at Deolali waiting for a ship to Blighty.
For soldiers discharged after their extra year of war there was a Catch 22. The Military Service Acts of 1916 allowed for them to be conscripted.
The Army whispered in the ears of those about to be shanghaied, offered a month's leave, a bounty and a retention of rank and regiment if desired.
If you need more, feel free to ask ......... its my Mastermind second subject. I forget what the first one is.
Other than those enlisted after the war began "for the duration", as a generality, soldiers on any engagement [regular of varying periods, TF, or Special Reserve] had a Termination of Engagement date which was to be extended by one year in case of war. This was enforced: "held to serve". Even in peacetime a soldier serving in far away places with strange sounding names could be held to serve if suitable transport and shipping was not available. Hence "Doolallytap!", a form of insanity allegedly brought on by being held at Deolali waiting for a ship to Blighty.
For soldiers discharged after their extra year of war there was a Catch 22. The Military Service Acts of 1916 allowed for them to be conscripted.
The Army whispered in the ears of those about to be shanghaied, offered a month's leave, a bounty and a retention of rank and regiment if desired.
If you need more, feel free to ask ......... its my Mastermind second subject. I forget what the first one is.
Avoid imitations
Hence "Doolallytap!", a form of insanity allegedly brought on by being held at Deolali waiting for a ship to Blighty.
To differentiate between them, we call one "Pally Sally" and the other one "Doolally Sally". We don't use their surnames because they're both divorced but "otherwise occupied". I always wondered about the origins of the name of the latter species.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Danny, in his case, he had joined the Territorial Force in 1911 for 4 years and on request agreed to go to France. This was for a period of one year. He then declined to extend his Service. However if, as LB says, there was the possibility of conscription, this may have influenced his transfer to the Navy.
Distressing even further, on my daughter's husband's maternal side, one relative was discharged, services no longer required, in Nov 14 and played no further part in hostilities.
Another was discharged to HMP Wandsworth although one did serve in the RN but was killed in 1918.
Distressing even further, on my daughter's husband's maternal side, one relative was discharged, services no longer required, in Nov 14 and played no further part in hostilities.
Another was discharged to HMP Wandsworth although one did serve in the RN but was killed in 1918.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 9th Sep 2016 at 18:18.
My school science teacher, Mr Davis, would often, without any apparent reason, fly into a rage and just as quickly return to science. Of course we kids saw it as a laugh to wind him up. I mentioned to my mother a joke we had played and she was really, really cross. It turned out that my father knew Mr Davis and she explained to me that he had fought through Germany and was present at the liberation of Belsen and witnessed the terrible scenes there. No wonder, she said, that he sometimes looses himself. My mother then said something that has stayed with me: never, ever mock anyone who behaves in a strange manner, you don't know what they have been through. I think of this when I see those elderly men that gather on a cold November day to march and honour those that didn't come home. That's why I hold in such contempt those who falsely present themselves as military heroes; Walter Mitty seems too mild a term for them.
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My school science teacher, Mr Davis, would often, without any apparent reason, fly into a rage and just as quickly return to science. Of course we kids saw it as a laugh to wind him up. I mentioned to my mother a joke we had played and she was really, really cross. It turned out that my father knew Mr Davis and she explained to me that he had fought through Germany and was present at the liberation of Belsen and witnessed the terrible scenes there. No wonder, she said, that he sometimes looses himself. My mother then said something that has stayed with me: never, ever mock anyone who behaves in a strange manner, you don't know what they have been through. I think of this when I see those elderly men that gather on a cold November day to march and honour those that didn't come home. That's why I hold in such contempt those who falsely present themselves as military heroes; Walter Mitty seems too mild a term for them.
Very well put, sir!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
On a cold, wet, wind swept hill in France, overlooking the last resting place of their ships, a number of old sailors stood in their grey flannels, blazers and black and green berets whilst a French bugler sounded the Last Post.
This was an intensely personal remembrance ceremony.
It was humbling to observe.
This was an intensely personal remembrance ceremony.
It was humbling to observe.
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service numbers
I may be able to shed some light on the final letter quoted by some.
There were many errors in transcribing service numbers with accompanying turmoil in the paperwork. At some time in the sixties a letter was added after the row of numbers. This letter was the result of a check sum of the preceding numbers. I cannot remember the exact process at this distance but it went something like; add all the preceding numbers together and count through the alphabet using the sum as a stopping point. If the final letter did not agree with the location of the checksum then the service number was corrupt and should be checked again.
Further to the discussion about walts, I too have some concerns about a resident near me who claims an army rank of Warrant Officer. His behaviour does not fit the rank he claims and nor does his writing style which is basically v ignorant of punctuation spelling and logic
Without a service number how does one discretely check? I would hate to wrongly accuse him of spurious claims, after all he may be right but there are many brave men who should not be sullied by imposters. Is it a criminal offence to impersonate a warrant officer?
There were many errors in transcribing service numbers with accompanying turmoil in the paperwork. At some time in the sixties a letter was added after the row of numbers. This letter was the result of a check sum of the preceding numbers. I cannot remember the exact process at this distance but it went something like; add all the preceding numbers together and count through the alphabet using the sum as a stopping point. If the final letter did not agree with the location of the checksum then the service number was corrupt and should be checked again.
Further to the discussion about walts, I too have some concerns about a resident near me who claims an army rank of Warrant Officer. His behaviour does not fit the rank he claims and nor does his writing style which is basically v ignorant of punctuation spelling and logic
Without a service number how does one discretely check? I would hate to wrongly accuse him of spurious claims, after all he may be right but there are many brave men who should not be sullied by imposters. Is it a criminal offence to impersonate a warrant officer?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Charybdis and Limbourne, 23 Oct 1943, HMS Charybdis and HMS Limbourne - Guernsey Royal Court
and HMS CHARYBDIS, this later shows the position. The memorial is on the headland.
The action report is here: HMS Charybdis, AA Cruiser, Loss and Commemoration
and HMS CHARYBDIS, this later shows the position. The memorial is on the headland.
The action report is here: HMS Charybdis, AA Cruiser, Loss and Commemoration
PN - thanks
Tinribs - that's how I understand it too, except it does not work for me - 608488 should be "H", but my check digit was "F". maybe they coded it by starting other than at A
Tinribs - that's how I understand it too, except it does not work for me - 608488 should be "H", but my check digit was "F". maybe they coded it by starting other than at A
P_N - I was once talking to an elderly lady in my shop. She was telling me that her father had been one of the crew of Charybdis who was lost in the action described in your link. A man who was browsing in the shop came over and after excusing himself for interrupting informed us he was a navy diver, and earlier that year had been one of a team of divers who had gone down to the remains of the ship and attached a white ensign to the wreck, a ceremony which apparently takes place annually, presumably on the anniversary of its loss. The lady was very moved, and the chap promised to get in touch with her and send her a photo of the wreck with its newly attached ensign.
Amazing coincidence, and a very happy one.
Amazing coincidence, and a very happy one.
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I joined the RAF as a Boy Entrant in 1959, demobbed in 1973. In the mid 1960s a letter was added to my RAF service number. Here is the algorithm that was used to calculate the letter:
Multiply the first digit by 8
second by 17
third by 4
forth by 16
fifth by 2
sixth by 13
seventh by 5
Add these up to produce answer A
Divide A by 23
Chop all the decimal places then multiply by 23. The result is answer B.
Subtract B from A to produce answer C which is a letter of the alphabet where Zero = A, 1 = B, 2 = C etc. But omit "O" and "I" to avoid confusion with "0" and "1".
Multiply the first digit by 8
second by 17
third by 4
forth by 16
fifth by 2
sixth by 13
seventh by 5
Add these up to produce answer A
Divide A by 23
Chop all the decimal places then multiply by 23. The result is answer B.
Subtract B from A to produce answer C which is a letter of the alphabet where Zero = A, 1 = B, 2 = C etc. But omit "O" and "I" to avoid confusion with "0" and "1".
In 1973 I was allocated R8108493, the two guys alphabetically by surname, before me were P8108491 & Q8108492 and so on through the rest of the squad.
CG
It was always my understanding that when you leave the Army or RAF, you resign your commission and therefore you are not entitled to use your rank any longer.
As the Senior Service, when a RN officer leaves the service, he retains his commission and therefore retains his rank. He doesn't even have to use (Retd) as he always holds his commission.
Correct?
As the Senior Service, when a RN officer leaves the service, he retains his commission and therefore retains his rank. He doesn't even have to use (Retd) as he always holds his commission.
Correct?
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In 1973 I was allocated R8108493, the two guys alphabetically by surname, before me were P8108491 & Q8108492 and so on through the rest of the squad.
Ricardian - thank God for computers
Jenkins - I kept same number in the RAF for two regular and one VR(T) commission. Different number as a TA officer in the Really Large Corps
Jenkins - I kept same number in the RAF for two regular and one VR(T) commission. Different number as a TA officer in the Really Large Corps
Red On, Green On
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Numbers were allocated by surname order within specialisation as we entered Dartmouth, so my SL aircrew mates are all within 15 of me. The format was CNNNNNX where N is a digit and X is a checksum letter.
The Army gave me a soldier's number when I went green. I've no idea if there's a checksum - 244NNNNN dates me
The Army gave me a soldier's number when I went green. I've no idea if there's a checksum - 244NNNNN dates me
