RAF Fighter Command VHF/DF Fixer Net Early 1950's
Thread Starter
ValMORNA
Was it perhaps a QGH (Controlled Descent Through Cloud), if so I posted a description of the procedure here:
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post8170504 (Post #4578)
...and for CoffmannStarter's info there is a photo of crystal controlled R1392 VHF receivers in the link.
WT
which depicted a Vampire with a problem being assisted to a safe landing. (Cue: applause all round.) I expect it is available somewhere on the internet.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post8170504 (Post #4578)
...and for CoffmannStarter's info there is a photo of crystal controlled R1392 VHF receivers in the link.
WT
Last edited by Warmtoast; 1st Jul 2016 at 21:25. Reason: (
Guest
Posts: n/a
Warmtoast,
Yours was on Pilot's Brevet" at p.229/4578. Now imagine you have four on your plate at once. "One-armed paper-hanger" doesn't come near it !
The CR/DF (and the later CA/DF) came in to the Approach Room, and you were out of business for all practical purposes. Ingenious lads put the spare time to good use, one chap at Valley made lead soldiers ! (my tale somewhere on that Thread).
BEagle takes up the story two Posts later (#4580 - "Here's the CRDF chart for RAF Valley in 1954:") Now a Controller worth his salt could manage four-in-hand, provided that the pilots did exactly what they were told when they were told. Much less if some sadist added a problem such as "No Compass", "No Compass, No Gyro", "Speechless", "Double flame Out" or any combination of the above.... We earned our dosh and came off watch like wet rags !
But it was a good life !
Danny.
Yours was on Pilot's Brevet" at p.229/4578. Now imagine you have four on your plate at once. "One-armed paper-hanger" doesn't come near it !
The CR/DF (and the later CA/DF) came in to the Approach Room, and you were out of business for all practical purposes. Ingenious lads put the spare time to good use, one chap at Valley made lead soldiers ! (my tale somewhere on that Thread).
BEagle takes up the story two Posts later (#4580 - "Here's the CRDF chart for RAF Valley in 1954:") Now a Controller worth his salt could manage four-in-hand, provided that the pilots did exactly what they were told when they were told. Much less if some sadist added a problem such as "No Compass", "No Compass, No Gyro", "Speechless", "Double flame Out" or any combination of the above.... We earned our dosh and came off watch like wet rags !
But it was a good life !
Danny.
Thread Starter
Danny
Not immediately, as from Biggin/Kelvedon Hatch I went on to Bovingdon, from there to the Far East for two years and on return from the Far East to Abingdon. It was here in 1959 that I was approached by RAF Abingdon's Personnel Department and asked whether I had thought of remustering as an AQM (Loadmaster). Bristol Britannias were about to enter service and Transport Command were actively seeking possible AQMs and with Abingdon being a Transport Command station, personnel working there had prior knowledge of the recruitment drive, so my name was forwarded to Transport Command HQ at Upavon and a few days later I was asked to attend HQ TC's selection board at Upavon which I did and was selected.
In June 1959 I started my AQM parachute and dispatcher training at 1 PTS, Abingdon (photos above) and later was posted to 242 OCU Dishforth for flight training. In August 1959 I qualified as an AQM and was posted to 99 Sqn at RAF Lyneham. I flew with 99 until I left the RAF in late 1963 - happy times indeed!
WT
The CR/DF (and the later CA/DF) came in to the Approach Room, and you were out of business for all practical purposes
In June 1959 I started my AQM parachute and dispatcher training at 1 PTS, Abingdon (photos above) and later was posted to 242 OCU Dishforth for flight training. In August 1959 I qualified as an AQM and was posted to 99 Sqn at RAF Lyneham. I flew with 99 until I left the RAF in late 1963 - happy times indeed!
WT
Last edited by Warmtoast; 2nd Jul 2016 at 09:22.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Warmtoast (#24),
I'm seeing you in a new light ! And you'll take your trusty Rolleiflex and your photographic skills aboard with you, I'll be bound. Looking forward to more treats ASAP !
Small voice: why would an AQM need to be a parachutist ? Never attracted me - the flames would need to be licking my toes before I hopped out of a perfectly good aeroplane. Your pics made me feel quite faint ! ("Back to the wind, shoulders round, feet together, watch the ground", that was the mantra, wasn't it ?) Not this child.
(Once, in my cups, volunteered (at RAF Rawalpindi - Parachute School - Next morning, sober, weaselled out of it !)
Danny.
... In August 1959 I qualified as an AQM and was posted to 99 Sqn at RAF Lyneham. I flew with 99 until I left the RAF in late 1963 - happy times indeed!...
Small voice: why would an AQM need to be a parachutist ? Never attracted me - the flames would need to be licking my toes before I hopped out of a perfectly good aeroplane. Your pics made me feel quite faint ! ("Back to the wind, shoulders round, feet together, watch the ground", that was the mantra, wasn't it ?) Not this child.
(Once, in my cups, volunteered (at RAF Rawalpindi - Parachute School - Next morning, sober, weaselled out of it !)
Danny.
Danny,
an AQM/ALM had to do a parachuting course as the army insisted that only those who had jumped could despatch paras. You needed to have experienced the terror to understand those who did it for a living. This requirement is no longer part of the ALM course . Wamtoast's pics are a vivid reminder of when I did my AQM para course.
The tower jumps were bad but the eerie silence of the balloon was something else !
an AQM/ALM had to do a parachuting course as the army insisted that only those who had jumped could despatch paras. You needed to have experienced the terror to understand those who did it for a living. This requirement is no longer part of the ALM course . Wamtoast's pics are a vivid reminder of when I did my AQM para course.
The tower jumps were bad but the eerie silence of the balloon was something else !
Guest
Posts: n/a
ancientaviator62,
The case in a nutshell for Air Traffic Controllers to have flying experience.
Couldn't have put it better myself ! (in my time, the MCA, as part of the Controller's Course, trained their Cadets up to PPL standard). No reason why the RAF couldn't do the same. There were plenty of old TMs and Chipmunks around and no lack of old hairies to instruct.
Faute de mieux, I advised one of my new young men to beg what time he could on the station simulator (no hope of getting him actual flying time). As the young gentleman concerned ended as the Commandant of that School at which he had once sat on the scholar's bench, it may be that my advice was beneficial.
Danny.
...You needed to have experienced the terror to understand those who did it for a living...
Couldn't have put it better myself ! (in my time, the MCA, as part of the Controller's Course, trained their Cadets up to PPL standard). No reason why the RAF couldn't do the same. There were plenty of old TMs and Chipmunks around and no lack of old hairies to instruct.
Faute de mieux, I advised one of my new young men to beg what time he could on the station simulator (no hope of getting him actual flying time). As the young gentleman concerned ended as the Commandant of that School at which he had once sat on the scholar's bench, it may be that my advice was beneficial.
Danny.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,812
Received 137 Likes
on
64 Posts
I used to bag as much sim time [Lightning and Hunter] as I could at Tengah, to get an idea of the environment of the guys I was talking to. I remember the Hunter sim, albeit static, having some switchgear in dreadful places ... wasn't the ARC-52 down by the pilot's left hip and slightly behind his buttocks?
What a fascinating post Warm Toast. |I first went down the hole at Boulmer in the late seventies and was fascinated by the scale of the place. Since then it has been dug out and extended massively. I discovered this was just a small part of a massive network known as ROTOR. At the same time there was a network of AAOR bunkers for the army ack ack system. Advances in radar performance and the brilliant innovation of a Sqn leader at Boulmer, meant that many of these monolithic structures were redundant to the military almost as soon as they were built. Subsequently, many were passed onto new users, particularly in the wartime government role. There is an excellent resource for exploring these structures : Radar - Subterranea Britannica
I recall signing for the refurbished Neatishead bunker in 85/6, and later reading the BoI on the fire in the 60s - horrifying. Then discovered father of a friend of SWMBO was the civilian Incident Commander from Norfolk Fire Brigade
Guest
Posts: n/a
AnglianAV8R (#2),
Thank you for the link ! Looked up Seaton Snook, where our Auxiliary Fighter Controllers, Fighter Plotters and Radar Operators from Thornaby learned their trades in the early '50s.
Being only "admin", I was denied entry, ruefully reflecting that I, who had faithfully served our gracious monarch, and her father before her, for fifteen years in war and peace, and sworn the Oath of Attestation to, and held my Commission from, should be now turned away. Whereas some checkout girl (did we have supermarkets then ?), with a couple of month's part time service, was welcomed with open arms. Funny old world.
So this is the sad end of our 'hole'. Even now there must be dozens of gentle old(ish) grandmothers round here, who recall the halcyon years of their youth, and would be grieved at the sight of the old place today.
Will have a look at our Summer Camp places: Bawdsey, Wartling, (don't suppose I could get at Sundern [RAFG], not sure if this was the right place, anyway - it was a GCI Unit).
Danny42C.
...What a fascinating post Warm Toast. |I first went down the hole at Boulmer in the late seventies...
Being only "admin", I was denied entry, ruefully reflecting that I, who had faithfully served our gracious monarch, and her father before her, for fifteen years in war and peace, and sworn the Oath of Attestation to, and held my Commission from, should be now turned away. Whereas some checkout girl (did we have supermarkets then ?), with a couple of month's part time service, was welcomed with open arms. Funny old world.
So this is the sad end of our 'hole'. Even now there must be dozens of gentle old(ish) grandmothers round here, who recall the halcyon years of their youth, and would be grieved at the sight of the old place today.
Will have a look at our Summer Camp places: Bawdsey, Wartling, (don't suppose I could get at Sundern [RAFG], not sure if this was the right place, anyway - it was a GCI Unit).
Danny42C.
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: humzaland
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gentlemen
A bit of thread drift but does anyone have details of the French Fixer Service which was in use in the late 50s? AFIR it covered the whole of France and all the stations operated on 121.5, with callsigns that were regionally alcoholic like 'Calvados', 'Cognac', and 'Cassis'. We didn't use it unless there was still cloud cover after we ran out of Gee (Reims Chain I think). 'Cassis' was somewhere in Provence and the controller there usually got a call to relieve the silence after the regular failure to get any response from Paris when entering French airspace.
A bit of thread drift but does anyone have details of the French Fixer Service which was in use in the late 50s? AFIR it covered the whole of France and all the stations operated on 121.5, with callsigns that were regionally alcoholic like 'Calvados', 'Cognac', and 'Cassis'. We didn't use it unless there was still cloud cover after we ran out of Gee (Reims Chain I think). 'Cassis' was somewhere in Provence and the controller there usually got a call to relieve the silence after the regular failure to get any response from Paris when entering French airspace.
Thread Starter
Danny42C
A bit of thread drift, but bear with me - WT
As soon as I was on the regular trips to the Far East with 99 Sqn I was tempted (and succumbed) to the lure of 8mm cine film and bought a cine camera cheaply in Changi Village and from early 1960 onwards my photographic interest was geared to the moving image, so sadly not many more pin-sharp Rollei transparancies of my RAF service are likely to appear.
More likely screen grabs from not particularly sharp 8mm cine film as below that shows a trip we made have a close-up of Kilimanjaro and inside its crater whilst on standby in Nairobi for a brewing 1960's Middle East crises.
Ancientaviator62 has answered why AQM's did the parchute course at 1 PTS. My logbook logs one (just one!) parachute descent from a tethered balloon at Abingdon. And whilst on the subject of 1PTS; in my day the Parachute Jump Instructors at Abingdon were all gnarled and grizzly veterans of Suez or earlier and tended to shout down at you rather than talk in a civilised manner, but things change.
A couple of years ago I attended a press event at R.A.F. Northolt when a company launched a range of toys with an R.A.F. theme – present were some present day RAF Parachute Jump Instructors from (Brize Norton?). You will note from my photos they are NOT “gnarled and grizzly” at all — how things change!
At 242 OCU Dishforth, among the things we potential AQMs were taught was how to fill in an aircraft weight and balance trim sheet: Hastings (relatively simple), Britannia (relatively simple) because they only included fore and aft trimming, but the dreaded Beverley trim-sheet introduced a new complexity into the skills required to fill in the form as it introduced the need to include vertical loads into the equation as well as fore and aft weights. ISTR the whole AQM course suffered as it took ages to master the bloody thing! Sample below.
WT.
A bit of thread drift, but bear with me - WT
I'm seeing you in a new light ! And you'll take your trusty Rolleiflex and your photographic skills aboard with you, I'll be bound. Looking forward to more treats ASAP !
Small voice: why would an AQM need to be a parachutist ? Never attracted me - the flames would need to be licking my toes before I hopped out of a perfectly good aeroplane. Your pics made me feel quite faint ! ("Back to the wind, shoulders round, feet together, watch the ground", that was the mantra, wasn't it ?) Not this child.
Small voice: why would an AQM need to be a parachutist ? Never attracted me - the flames would need to be licking my toes before I hopped out of a perfectly good aeroplane. Your pics made me feel quite faint ! ("Back to the wind, shoulders round, feet together, watch the ground", that was the mantra, wasn't it ?) Not this child.
More likely screen grabs from not particularly sharp 8mm cine film as below that shows a trip we made have a close-up of Kilimanjaro and inside its crater whilst on standby in Nairobi for a brewing 1960's Middle East crises.
Ancientaviator62 has answered why AQM's did the parchute course at 1 PTS. My logbook logs one (just one!) parachute descent from a tethered balloon at Abingdon. And whilst on the subject of 1PTS; in my day the Parachute Jump Instructors at Abingdon were all gnarled and grizzly veterans of Suez or earlier and tended to shout down at you rather than talk in a civilised manner, but things change.
A couple of years ago I attended a press event at R.A.F. Northolt when a company launched a range of toys with an R.A.F. theme – present were some present day RAF Parachute Jump Instructors from (Brize Norton?). You will note from my photos they are NOT “gnarled and grizzly” at all — how things change!
At 242 OCU Dishforth, among the things we potential AQMs were taught was how to fill in an aircraft weight and balance trim sheet: Hastings (relatively simple), Britannia (relatively simple) because they only included fore and aft trimming, but the dreaded Beverley trim-sheet introduced a new complexity into the skills required to fill in the form as it introduced the need to include vertical loads into the equation as well as fore and aft weights. ISTR the whole AQM course suffered as it took ages to master the bloody thing! Sample below.
WT.
Last edited by Warmtoast; 4th Jul 2016 at 20:31.
AnglianAV8R
May I second Danny's thanks for that link. It enabled me to catch up on the fate of the "pit" at Pitreavie Castle. Strange that there was no mention of the Matelo section. I spent over 4 years (in two spells) working therein so it did exist !
May I second Danny's thanks for that link. It enabled me to catch up on the fate of the "pit" at Pitreavie Castle. Strange that there was no mention of the Matelo section. I spent over 4 years (in two spells) working therein so it did exist !
Warmtoast,
I did a balloon jump and a jump from an Argosy. This after getting airborne three times in a Beverley only to have the drop aborted each time. By this time we were not as calm and collected as we might have been.
The pics of your travels are very interesting, and perhaps we could be allowed the thread to drift to see more.
My pics (a boxful have disappeared) of my AQM/ALM trips are over on the 'global aviation...Hercules' thread. You may find some of them rekindle memories for you
I did a balloon jump and a jump from an Argosy. This after getting airborne three times in a Beverley only to have the drop aborted each time. By this time we were not as calm and collected as we might have been.
The pics of your travels are very interesting, and perhaps we could be allowed the thread to drift to see more.
My pics (a boxful have disappeared) of my AQM/ALM trips are over on the 'global aviation...Hercules' thread. You may find some of them rekindle memories for you
Guest
Posts: n/a
Warmtoast
I said:
...the flames would need to be licking my toes before I hopped out of a perfectly good aeroplane...
Beverley Trim Sheet - what a horror ! The only thing worse, IMHO, was the later (in my VAT days) "Accrington Schedule" which enabled me to calculate a publican's overall mark-up to two places of decimals; armed with this I was able to assess him £xxxxxx for unpaid Tax. If he didn't like this, he could take me to Tribunal. In my 13 years four did so, result: Customs 4, Appellants 0.
Danny.
Coff,
thankfully I was a Hastings/Beverley man and so the vertical c of g was mercifully absent from those a/c ! If Warmtoast had remained in the RAF he might have ended up on the mighty Hercules.
thankfully I was a Hastings/Beverley man and so the vertical c of g was mercifully absent from those a/c ! If Warmtoast had remained in the RAF he might have ended up on the mighty Hercules.
Thread Starter
A bit of history
From late 1956 until early 1957 I was based at R.A.F. Negombo in Sri Lanka working in the R.A.F. Negombo VHF/DF Homer. This was one of the prime navigational aids for aircraft transiting this busy R.A.F. Staging Post at Negombo and was full of activity, not only with R.A.F. aircraft but with international civilian aircraft passing through Sri Lanka as well.
As to Negombo being busy have a look at this photo of the dispersal area around 1957. A TWA Connie, a Comet, two Valiants, a Hastings, a Valetta, two Shacks and something else. In the background (left-centre) Snake Hill can be seen.
The Negombo Homer was situated on Snake Hill about a mile south of Negombo’s main runway and about two-miles from Negombo’s domestic area. With our work place being so far from our accommodation and messes, we VHF/DF operators were issued with bikes to get us to and from work – this involved crossing the main runway, cycling along a track which passed through a swampy area and then up another track which led to the Homer on the top of Snake Hill. Daytime journeys were fine, but when one was down to do the late night watch at 22.30 journeys were somewhat fraught for two reasons:
1. Our bikes had torch front lights which in the pitch darkness of a Sri Lankan night were about as bright and useful as a Toc H oil lamp, which was traditionally pretty dim anyway
2. The track through the swamp and onwards up the hill was lined with bushes and trees that were populated with snakes; it wasn’t calledSnake Hill for nothing!
But during my time there no one was bitten, but we always lived in fear that a snake could do its business and treat us operators as enemies! During the day green vipers and brown ones were seen regularly hanging from the bushes or sunning themselves on the track up to the top of the hill, whilst lower down in the swamp area at the bottom of the hill Cobras were plentiful. So especially in the evening when it was dark we were particularly careful not to cycle over or tread on anything nasty on our way to and from work.
Green Viper
One of my Favourite Photos
Anyway the reason for this post is to show you what I consider one of the favourite photos in my collection connected with VHF/DF work and shows the R.A.F. Negombo VHF/DF Homer looking east just before sunrise. I like because it shows, about 50-miles away, Adam’s Peak silhouetted on the horizon with the sun about to rise. Adam’s Peak can only be viewed before sunrise in silhouette form, because once the sun has risen the distant peak is lost in the daytime heat haze.
Adam's Peak silhouetted on the horizon 50-miles away on the right
Adam’s Peak
Situated in the highlands of central southern Sri Lanka, Adam’s Peak also called Sri Pada, is a place of pilgrimage for people of many faiths and from many countries. Set in the oblong platform that tops the mountain’s 2,243 metres-metre (7,360 feet-foot) summit is a large hollow resembling a human footprint and this site is venerated by Hindus, Muslims, and Buddhists alike. Traditionally many pilgrims climb through the night to reach the summit by dawn, in time for the spectacular sunrise that can be viewed from the peak.
I passed through Katunayake in 1979 and took this photo that shows that back then Snake hill had a Radar on top of it.
From late 1956 until early 1957 I was based at R.A.F. Negombo in Sri Lanka working in the R.A.F. Negombo VHF/DF Homer. This was one of the prime navigational aids for aircraft transiting this busy R.A.F. Staging Post at Negombo and was full of activity, not only with R.A.F. aircraft but with international civilian aircraft passing through Sri Lanka as well.
As to Negombo being busy have a look at this photo of the dispersal area around 1957. A TWA Connie, a Comet, two Valiants, a Hastings, a Valetta, two Shacks and something else. In the background (left-centre) Snake Hill can be seen.
The Negombo Homer was situated on Snake Hill about a mile south of Negombo’s main runway and about two-miles from Negombo’s domestic area. With our work place being so far from our accommodation and messes, we VHF/DF operators were issued with bikes to get us to and from work – this involved crossing the main runway, cycling along a track which passed through a swampy area and then up another track which led to the Homer on the top of Snake Hill. Daytime journeys were fine, but when one was down to do the late night watch at 22.30 journeys were somewhat fraught for two reasons:
1. Our bikes had torch front lights which in the pitch darkness of a Sri Lankan night were about as bright and useful as a Toc H oil lamp, which was traditionally pretty dim anyway
2. The track through the swamp and onwards up the hill was lined with bushes and trees that were populated with snakes; it wasn’t calledSnake Hill for nothing!
But during my time there no one was bitten, but we always lived in fear that a snake could do its business and treat us operators as enemies! During the day green vipers and brown ones were seen regularly hanging from the bushes or sunning themselves on the track up to the top of the hill, whilst lower down in the swamp area at the bottom of the hill Cobras were plentiful. So especially in the evening when it was dark we were particularly careful not to cycle over or tread on anything nasty on our way to and from work.
Green Viper
One of my Favourite Photos
Anyway the reason for this post is to show you what I consider one of the favourite photos in my collection connected with VHF/DF work and shows the R.A.F. Negombo VHF/DF Homer looking east just before sunrise. I like because it shows, about 50-miles away, Adam’s Peak silhouetted on the horizon with the sun about to rise. Adam’s Peak can only be viewed before sunrise in silhouette form, because once the sun has risen the distant peak is lost in the daytime heat haze.
Adam's Peak silhouetted on the horizon 50-miles away on the right
Adam’s Peak
Situated in the highlands of central southern Sri Lanka, Adam’s Peak also called Sri Pada, is a place of pilgrimage for people of many faiths and from many countries. Set in the oblong platform that tops the mountain’s 2,243 metres-metre (7,360 feet-foot) summit is a large hollow resembling a human footprint and this site is venerated by Hindus, Muslims, and Buddhists alike. Traditionally many pilgrims climb through the night to reach the summit by dawn, in time for the spectacular sunrise that can be viewed from the peak.
I passed through Katunayake in 1979 and took this photo that shows that back then Snake hill had a Radar on top of it.
Last edited by Warmtoast; 20th Aug 2016 at 23:05. Reason: Restore deleted photos
Great pictures, Warmtoast.
I hope you didn't stop to take that close-up of the Green Viper!
I think your "something else" might be a Devon.
I hope you didn't stop to take that close-up of the Green Viper!
I think your "something else" might be a Devon.