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P8 procurement

Old 28th Jun 2016, 07:33
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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The pound is predicted to fall significantly. No dollar denominated deals will be signed and the affordability of existing plans will have to be investigated.

have we reached a stage where pulling out would cost us penalty payments?
Nope. Even if there were penalty payments it wouldn't matter.
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 08:01
  #22 (permalink)  

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Maybe a picture will keep this on topic. It looks rather fetching with that Roundel IMHO.



Oh...does anyone know what the 'bulge' on the engine nacelle is for? (it's on both engines)
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 08:17
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Buster

The cowling bulge is ,in the location on the civil aircraft that houses the IDG, I would guess that the P8 has a much bigger requirement for electrical power and therefore requires a bigger IDG and the cowling bulge just accommodates this.
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 08:27
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The Type 26 buy would be money spent within the UK (at least for the moment....) whereas P8 is spent overseas involving exchange rates so is more likely to be at risk.

TOFO does raise a significant point though - should the MOD even consider placing a Frigate order in Scotland when that country is considering independence and is it too late for the yards at Portsmouth to bid for the contract?
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 09:31
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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And yes, the P-8 has larger generators, hence the bulges.

Last edited by T28B; 1st Jul 2016 at 20:34. Reason: Retained only the pertinent element of your post, Brexit guff gone
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 09:32
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Buster - nice pic of our first of 15.
Note also how the upper quarter window has been deleted from the 800-series.

I hope you keep your order, and we can keep Fincastle alive.
Now, back to P-8 procurement !!!
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 09:44
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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The P-8 has twice the electrical generating capacity of the basic aeroplane, which has required redesign of both nacelle and mounting structure.

I do hope that the UK will still be able to afford the P-8, now that the pound has fallen to its lowest value against the US dollar since 1985.

I note that there's a meeting of major airlines today in Europe; although the main reason is to identify ways of reducing the revenue impact which the French cause by their ATC strikes (they're having another one today..), no doubt the effects of financial uncertainty and exchange rates will also be discussed....

Last edited by BEagle; 28th Jun 2016 at 09:55.
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 10:08
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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The Type 26 buy would be money spent within the UK (at least for the moment....) whereas P8 is spent overseas involving exchange rates so is more likely to be at risk.

TOFO does raise a significant point though - should the MOD even consider placing a Frigate order in Scotland when that country is considering independence and is it too late for the yards at Portsmouth to bid for the contract?
It's a pretty big leverage point to the possible Scottish split from the UK in losing the contract and the revenue it produces, it also would make the Scottish claims on part of the Military less attractive at the split, after all, the wicked witch couldn't try to claim them for Scotland or factor them into the equation if they haven't been built.


..
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 11:00
  #29 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by A and C View Post
The cowling bulge is ,in the location on the civil aircraft that houses the IDG, I would guess that the P8 has a much bigger requirement for electrical power and therefore requires a bigger IDG and the cowling bulge just accommodates this.
Thank you, and BBadanov
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 11:40
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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I can't see the Govt (who they?) ordering anything for the rest of this year - if we assume a new Tory leader and Cabinet in October that will probably mean an autumn budget

The Type 26's and the P8 will be defered until we can see where the hell the economy is headed. And Successor is an obvious target for cost savings
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 15:22
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as Boeing and AAR et al are at Waddo
No Boeing here, Northrop Grumman yes Boeing no, they lost the Design Organisation tag for Sentry some time ago.
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 12:49
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The UK's plans to buy the Boeing P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft is one of a number of short- to near-term procurement decisions that now may have to be delayed or even cancelled following the country's decision to leave the European Union. Source: US Navy

http://www.janes.com/article/61810/a...orough-airshow

Last edited by Bannock; 29th Jun 2016 at 13:14.
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 14:42
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Anyway it'll be a damn shame if having spent years arguing we need some sort of marine capability and getting the nod it all goes west again because of the referendum..........

you start to wonder if it is possible to acquire anything within the current speed of political/economic cycles
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 18:44
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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The major problem up here for Scots wishing to keep the UK together, is that at the time of the Independence Referendum the EU and the UK Government put out the same message, namely - the only way for Scotland to stay in the EU would be to vote No to independence. That position swayed a lot of people worried about the possible economic consequences.

Last Thursday, what all the politicians thought unthinkable happened, and now the consequence of having voted No is that we are being dragged out of the EU anyway. You could hardly make it up!

If Indyref2 should come along, the only thing that will stop a Yes vote will be the prospect of continuing low to zero revenue from the North Sea, and the colossal current account deficit Scotland would therefore face. Mind you, the likelihood of a completely buggered up economy didn't stop England and Wales voting for "Independence" from Europe.

Much as I would like to see them, I wouldn't hold your breath about P8 being seen on the Moray Firth any time soon, and the Government wont decide on anything at all (P8, HS2, Heathrow runway) until they sort out the developing chaos.
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 19:11
  #35 (permalink)  
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P8 I am unsure about, Heathrow R3 is dead if Boris gets to be PM. HS2 is a puzzle, if a recession is on the cards they will want to pump funds into infrastructure, particularly in the north where the major voters for Leave complained about being left behind.

I could see HS3 being promoted and HS2 starting from the northern end as a compromise measure, and Boris island being resurrected again.......
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 19:20
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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procurement & basing

Judging by discussions in Defence Questions on BBC Parliament on Monday, P-8 procurement is at risk and if it does go ahead the basing decision (Lossiemouth) is certain to be revisited (ie changed)
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 20:08
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Retro,

As ex-military and still (just) an oil and gas worker, I can say that revenue from the North Sea will be subdued for many more years to come. All the industry experts and insiders are all saying so, and the imminent laying off of another 1000+ where I work all point to this, so it must be true. The SNP dodged a bullet when the vote went against them although they will never admit it publicly.

As for IndyRef2, I work with guys who are long standing SNP die-hards and they do not want another referendum anytime soon (although they still want independence). The trouble with the current situation is that support for the SNP and in particular their party membership rocketed from around 20K to 120K+ active members around the last referendum. It is unfortunate that the new 100K+ are all fanatical about independence and they will ultimately force the party into another referendum whether Sturgeon et al are ready for it or not. They have a party conference planned for this Autumn, so I would expect an announcement around then as their hand will be forced by a fervent party membership that is baying for any opportunity to rid itself of the shackles of Westminster irrespective of the consequences.
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Old 30th Jun 2016, 02:25
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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As to the P8 being at risk, if contracts are signed, surely it would have clauses in it that would cost the UK a fortune to withdraw from it.
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Old 10th Jul 2016, 17:08
  #39 (permalink)  
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The Sunday Times 10th July (behind firewall):

David Cameron is set to hand multibillion-pound deals to build maritime patrol aircraft and overhaul Apache attack helicopters to the American aerospace giant Boeing. The prime minister is expected to sign the contracts at the Farnborough International Airshow tomorrow. The US goliath will supply nine P-8 aircraft, which detect submarines, and overhaul 50 Apaches on its production line in Arizona.

The decision to hand the Apache deal to America will fuel concerns about the future of Britain’s only helicopter manufacturer, in Yeovil, Somerset. Cameron will try to ease those fears by handing the former Westlands plant, now owned by Italy’s Leonardo, a contract worth a few million pounds to begin developing a drone helicopter for the armed forces. It could be extended into a far more lucrative deal to design and build the drones.

The government will also indicate that Westlands could play a role in maintaining Britain’s upgraded Apaches.........
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Old 10th Jul 2016, 17:58
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Apropos the ST article - the usual in-depth research into the background to the orders is in evidence - the article is illustrated by a photo of a Sabena 747...
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