Woman Hawg driver

[The Helpful Stacker]

Hey a Pinckney girl! My Grandad taught me to play ice hockey on Portage Lake, right around the corner from Pinckney.

[tartare]

Danny - I hail from the land of the long white cloud.
But the better place is the west island - bigger, better weather.
Although when it comes to rugby - I bleed black!
Pax - I suspect you're right.
The oils in makeup and oxygen would be a safety hazard I'd imagine.

[megan]

That's the girl Danny, thanks.

PS: have a pilot report on the Vengeance by Eric Brown. Made it sound something of a pilots bird. Want a copy?

[Danny42C]

The Female of the Species is more dangerous than the Male.

megan (your #16)

...Also a story of a female crew plinking with their F-14 cannon on Bora Bora when that was all the go...

Here is a copy of another of my Posts which is relevant to this story (15.1.15 p.334 #6670). Unfortunately I cannot trace it back to the Post referred to:

...(Copied from another of my Posts on another Thread)
My eye was caught by this link:
(Extract D.Tel. 9.1.15).
"The pair have said that one of their proudest moments to date involved helping to foil a rocket (RPG ?) attack on their base at Kandahar airfield in 2010".
"There was a high threat and the base was expecting an imminent attack after some men were spotted in a nearby ditch, setting up to fire a rocket (RPG ?) at their accommodation block".
"They took the aircraft out to 15 miles from their position in the ditch and came down to low level, approaching at more than 500mph and as close to the Operational Low Flying minimum of 100 feet as possible, passing directly over them before heading into a steep climb".
"The rocket crew immediately scarpered in a truck and the pair felt they had made a tangible difference to protect their colleagues".
“The intention is to always use the minimum force required to provide the effect needed by the guys on the ground".
Am I missing something here ? This was in 2010, and there was a war going on in Afghanistan (as we have 453 good reasons to remember). This is the enemy, and he is making ready to kill you (or some of your comrades) if he can. You are airborne in one of the RAF's most powerful weapons. You have a 27mm cannon.
You buzz him off (as I used to shift a flock of goats off my strip before landing).
So that he can come back later and try again ?
I am a simple soul. Can someone please explain this to me (after all, my war was 70 years ago, and things change).
Danny.
Afterthought 1: I have my grandfather's India General Service Medal (with a clasp for Kandahar !) Nothing changes !
Afterthought 2: Radio a day or two ago reports that the Afghan Premier has appointed a Taliban General as Governer of the Helmand Province (If true, you couldn't invent it). D...

The twist to the story was, of course, that the crew were two ladies (I understand that the WSO [?] is now CO of a FJ Sqn). This was not mentioned in my original post as it was irrelevant - the problem was the ROE.
What do you suppose Major Campbell would have done under those circumstances ? Are the USAF ROEs the same ?

Danny.


megan,

Not seen a copy of the Report, but this was discussed a long time ago on "Pilot's Brevet" (reference not to hand, but could be dug up). He was rather disparaging of the VV, reckoning that the Stuka was superior as a dive bomber, inasmuch as the Stuka could be dived vertically, whereas the VV could not (which is the reverse of the fact). We concluded that he was given a Mk. IV (A-35) to test, in which case he may well have been right. As I never flew a Mk. IV, I am not an authority on them.

Unless the report says anything more, don't send a copy - but thanks all the same !

Danny.

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by Danny42C

The twist to the story was, of course, that the crew were two ladies (I understand that the WSO [?] is now CO of a FJ Sqn). This was not mentioned in my original post as it was irrelevant - the problem was the ROE.
What do you suppose Major Campbell would have done under those circumstances ? Are the USAF ROEs the same ?

Danny, my information is about a decade old, but RoE in Afghanistan was very tight for a long time -- it also varied with circumstances. There were days when I'd say that the fight was micromanaged at a high level, but at other times the key decision was the ground commander's judgment: do I want airborne fires, or some other effect from the air support?


Making a lot of this more difficult is how close some targets are to things/people our side does not want hit. (Note the savage noise after that air strike that hit a hospital (that was reported by the local Afgh ground commander as being a fighting position) recently). The fallout of press/media/information/propaganda goes into the formulation of RoE and from my recollection nobody in a civilian suit cares that it makes it more difficult and complex for those fighting. "You're the professionals, make it work." It didn't matter what party of political 'side' the final RoE approvals came from. "Don't make me look bad on CNN" is the prime directive from the political leadership.

[Danny42C]

Lonewolf 50,

Granted - (and the power of the 'meeja" is truly enormous), but who in his right mind could deny that this was a 100%, copper-bottomed, gold-plated military target ? Do not Daesh (or whatever we're supposed to call them now) run around today with artillery on the backs of Toyota pick-ups ?

And was this not a Clear and Present Danger to our troops in Kandahar ? If we're not to use lethal force on them in a case like this, then what are we doing there at all ?

This old mind boggles (it were different when I were a lad).

Danny.

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by Danny42C

Lonewolf 50, ...snip...who in his right mind could deny that this was a 100%, copper-bottomed, gold-plated military target? Do not Daesh (or whatever we're supposed to call them now) run around today with artillery on the backs of Toyota pick-ups ?

As I don't have a map and grid with the surrounding environment, I can't say how that would influence a "weapons free" or "weapons tight" ruling. The crew may have launched with an RoE of 'weapons tight unless otherwise advised' which is something I've seen in a variety of real world ops.

My heart is with your sentiments, of course.

And was this not a Clear and Present Danger to our troops in Kandahar ?

That's how I'd see it, but some of the RoE get into bizarre levels of detail. As Dick Deadeye said in HMS Pinafore " It's a queer world!" (queer meaning strange and not natural). on the other hand, my experiences with ops in Iraq is that when a 'technical' (armed pickup with AAA or mortars or rockets on the back) were found, they were valid targets so long as friendlies or "non targets" were not within 'x' distance. The folks who usually got them were armed rotary wing assets. I do recall clearly (and we got Gun Camera footage the following day from the squadron) a lovely strike on a pick up truck with a 57mm AAA piece in the northern part of Fallujah, done by an F-18 using (IIRC) a Maverick, of all things. There were times when the pilots were allowed to deploy their weapons systems as intended.

If we're not to use lethal force on them in a case like this, then what are we doing there at all ?

Ain't that the question?

[Wander00]

Having read Brig Gen Leavitt's CV, what for an ignorant Brit does "Brig Gen Frocked" mean please

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by Wander00

Having read Brig Gen Leavitt's CV, what for an ignorant Brit does "Brig Gen Frocked" mean please

If it's in the US, it means that the star was pinned on due to being

1. on the approved promotion list for BGen,
2. and in a one star billet

but not yet paid as a one-star due to "official effective date of rank" in the promotion message" sent out by the personnel folks. I was frocked twice (and had a cigarette after each time) to LCDR and CDR (O-4 and O-5) in the Navy. It allowed the Navy to fill the billet but not pay for it for a few months until my official date of rank arrived. (In a large service like the USN, they break promotion bunches into blocs by seniority number, which is basically a way to save a few dollars). It can matter in obscure cases later on, when someone tries to figure out "who is senior" and dates of rank are compared. Rare but occasionally useful on the admin side. I was once the XO for two weeks by virtue of being being the senior LCDR present and the XO was on leave.

[Wander00]

aah, what we call "acting unpaid", but if you are discharging the responsibilities of the rank in an appropriate posti you get "acting paid rank" (well you did in my day.....) pending the promotion list being published, which used to be twice yearly, But thanks for taking the trouble to explain

[KenV]

Regarding "frocked" ranks, besides not getting the pay of your frocked rank, your frocked rank does not apply under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). So when frocked you can properly wear the insignia, have the title, and fill a billet of the frocked rank, but you are not "legally" at that rank for pay, seniority, or military justice purposes. Hope that helped.

[Danny42C]

KenV,

Never came across "Frocked" in that sense: there was only Acting (paid) and Acting (unpaid) AFAIK.

Now "Unfrocked" (as of a clergyman) has a clear derivation. He/Her has the right to wear the vestments of the Office withdrawn. Suppose "Frocked" has the opposite meaning as used here.

Danny42C..

[KenV]

Now "Unfrocked" (as of a clergyman) has a clear derivation. He/Her has the right to wear the vestments of the Office withdrawn.

That's probably the origin of the term. A frocked clergyman is one who is entitled to wear the vestments of his ecclesiastical office. A defrocked clergyman can no longer wear those vestments.