Germany to pull out of the A400 program
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Any restrictions now in place are down the the RAF Release to Service and capability requirement alone, which still prohibits much of the non-Strat role.
I think it's important to remember the climate at the time - the RAF was entering into a 4-year lease to cover a perceived short-term gap in Strat and outsized lift capability.
Faced with that task, do you,
a. Undertake full trials and staff-work to clear all roles (look at the C-130J for a loose comparison of timelines and complexity), or,
b. Simply insert the word "Prohibited" next to anything outside of the Strat AM concept.
I know what I'd do!
Back on thread though, what will be interesting will be to see if the RAF thinks we now need those roles; if so, let's see how long it takes for those prohibitions to be reversed in the now, post-Hadden-Cave environment in which we find ourselves.
Last edited by Uncle Ginsters; 13th May 2016 at 16:50.
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The choice of a turboprop solution was driven by the need to perform Sarajevo approaches (aka Khe Sanh approaches), or so I was told at the time.
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Back on thread though, what will be interesting will be to see if the RAF thinks we now need those roles; if so, let's see how long it takes for those prohibitions to be reversed in the now, post-Hadden-Cave environment in which we find ourselves.
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FFS Ken, it's like listening to a C17 sales pitch on non stop looping play.
Actually, I'm not even sure if KenV is one person, more like a fecking non-stop sales pitch for the US of A, Boeing, LM, L3, you name it.....
S-D
Actually, I'm not even sure if KenV is one person, more like a fecking non-stop sales pitch for the US of A, Boeing, LM, L3, you name it.....
S-D
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...the RAF will use all of the C-17's tactical capabilities...
inflight refueling. .
RAF has been operating their C-17s from austere unpaved fields in combat zones for nigh on two decades.
S-D, if you'll wind your neck in a bit you'll find less that annoys you.
KenV may know more...
but my understanding is that 14-0003 (msn 50273/F272) is currently still reg N272ZD, unsold at Boeing Long Beach.
AUS is crazy not to buy it, as there will soon be a demand on USAF second-hand aircraft, which they probably will not release.
but my understanding is that 14-0003 (msn 50273/F272) is currently still reg N272ZD, unsold at Boeing Long Beach.
AUS is crazy not to buy it, as there will soon be a demand on USAF second-hand aircraft, which they probably will not release.
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Especially since Australia's 2016 Integrated Investment Plan incorporates the acquisition of another two.
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Should we leave this thread to A400M and start a new one on C17. I would be interested to hear of the development of the Tac Capabilities of both a/c particularly airdrop. I noted a couple of weeks back that freefall para had taken place from RAF C17.
Top airbus man was one of the first to freefall from A400M on one of the very early flights (publicity stunts).
Drag
Top airbus man was one of the first to freefall from A400M on one of the very early flights (publicity stunts).
Drag
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KenV Is the last whitetail C-17 sold or earmarked for anyone? ....my understanding is that 14-0003 (msn 50273/F272) is currently still reg N272ZD, unsold at Boeing Long Beach.
As for the "C-17 sales pitches", they were all posted to refute the claims made about turbofan vs turboprop military airlifters. Almost all of the "tactical limitations" attributed to turbofans were a crock as the C-17 has been demonstrating for decades. And if the RAF is not planning on using the C-17's tactical capabilities as was asserted above, they're pi$$ing away a lot of money to upgrade and standardize their entire fleet to the block 19 standard, acquire airdrop and other tactical equipment, and to train their crews in the C-17's tactical systems/procedures. UK-1 (Fu-77) is in San Antonio now and I was aboard just a few minutes ago. Without violating ITAR or other export regulations, lets just say that the tactical systems installations are essentially complete, the UARSSI system is fully functional, and its on schedule for paint and final delivery. Is the RAF going to use all of the expensive upgrades they've paid for? That depends mostly on how much training they are willing and able to pay for. The tactical systems and equipment are bought, paid for, and installed, so now all they've got to do is train their crews to use it. I'm assuming (perhaps a big fat false assumption) that having paid for the equipment and its installation, that they'll find the money to train their crews. Of course that is uncertain. I don't know how it works in the UK, but there are different colors of money in the US. Some money can only be spent for acquisition and different color money must be used for operations, which in the US includes training. Maybe the RAF still needs to obtain the different color money to do the training.
Last edited by KenV; 16th May 2016 at 13:57.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Ken, I think you will find we have funny money too. Problem is not enough so if you want some more then you need to take it from someone else.
The RAF is in the C-17 block upgrade program, so it gets what it is included in that program. It is not purchasing capabilities above and beyond the wider program, only keeping pace with it. This is in an effort to reduce the total cost of ownership by avoiding the situation where the standard of our aircraft drifts away from the wider fleet. When new toys arrived (such as IR landing lamps) on our most recent C-17s it was not because we had specifically purchased them, they just happened to be part of that particular block standard.
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The RAF C-17s operate to the Global Fleet concept, which keeps them supposedly in step with the rest of the world. The slight irony in that is that it actually puts us ahead of most of the USAF jets - I have no idea how the 'queue' (or 'line' for our Stateside buddies!) works for the upgrades. The fact is, we get each and every one of them.
What you (KenV) have to NB is that us "micro-fleets" of 4-10 jets work quite differently to the USAF with their 220+ frames. To put up a training jet takes a significant portion of our frames (1/6 on the line) and thus keeping the lowest possible training burden is paramount...to the point where, yes, it can even drive capability. Even synthetics suffer this same issue.
That's sadly just how it is operating in such relatively small numbers...
What you (KenV) have to NB is that us "micro-fleets" of 4-10 jets work quite differently to the USAF with their 220+ frames. To put up a training jet takes a significant portion of our frames (1/6 on the line) and thus keeping the lowest possible training burden is paramount...to the point where, yes, it can even drive capability. Even synthetics suffer this same issue.
That's sadly just how it is operating in such relatively small numbers...
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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The RAF C-17s operate to the Global Fleet concept, which keeps them supposedly in step with the rest of the world. The slight irony in that is that it actually puts us ahead of most of the USAF jets - I have no idea how the 'queue' (or 'line' for our Stateside buddies!) works for the upgrades. The fact is, we get each and every one of them.