Britain's Air to Air Refuelling Capability

[Tengah Type]

Actually it was a VC10K3 that prodded the Kiwi A4. To be sure!

[Blue Bottle]

Look at page 24 to see how much of the Air Mobility Force budget the KC30 costs. Add a boom to that and great expense
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafbrizenorton...06618978CA.pdf

[pr00ne]

A Station Commander AND a Head of Establishment, both at Group Captain level? How much does THAT cost..

[salad-dodger]

Originally Posted by pr00ne

A Station Commander AND a Head of Establishment, both at Group Captain level? How much does THAT cost..

I remember what a Station Commander is, but wtf is a Head of Establishment?

S-D

[Wander00]

Did I not read some where that there are now station commanders and force commanders on the same "station"

[RetiredBA/BY]

Originally Posted by pr00ne

A Station Commander AND a Head of Establishment, both at Group Captain level? How much does THAT cost..

How much does it cost, well not very much. Two Group Captains at, say, 100K PA each, if that, is still FAR less than would be paid to just one individual in the private sector (and in very many areas in the public domain) with that amount of responsibility.

MOD have got Brize management on the cheap.

It seems more than reasonable to me, on such a large station as BZN , to have one GC running ops. and the other running Station "admin".

[ICM]

If, as I understand things, several previously Command or Group level functions are now found at Station level, it's not surprising that this would cause changes at the top of what I see is a £1.4bn full-cost operation.

I am, however, intrigued by another bit of p24, where it's stated that work is in hand "to give Defence access to an additional Voyager aircraft," an issue that appears to be linked to a desire to reduce charter expenditure. Other than remarking that this is by no means a new desire, as it came up often enough in the 1970s to my knowledge, are we to take it that this work seeks to increase the Voyager 'Core Fleet' to 10? And that it needs a contract amendment to use one of the 'surge' fleet in a situation short of war?

[Roland Pulfrew]

A Station Commander AND a Head of Establishment, both at Group Captain level? How much does THAT cost..

Not much really. Think span of control. Average Station circa 1200-1500 personnel = 1 gp capt. Brize, which has expanded dramatically, circa 3000 mil/civ personnel (maybe more now). At full capacity will have 7, or is it 8 (?), large squadrons and about 1/10 of the entire RAF. Doesn't seem unreasonable to have 2 gp capts for that. Just think of the OJAR load.

Did I not read some where that there are now station commanders and force commanders on the same "station"

Force HQs, commanded by the 1* Force Commander (think AOs in old terminology AO Tornado, AO ISTAR, AO AT/AAR* etc) are supposed to be "Group Forward". Stn Cdr remains the Stn Cdr at gp capt rank and gets the big house. It followed the massive cock-up of trying to squeeze PTC into Air at HW and the resulting need to free up space at HW. As a casual observer some FHQs are working better than others.

* Interestingly the non-aircrew branches seem to have stuck to RAF tradition more than the aircrew as they have kept AO A6, AO A4, AO BM etc

[D-IFF_ident]

I'd estimate that if you got rid of around 150 Gp Capts in one year, or 1 Gp Capt for 150 years, that would just about pay for one boom on one aircraft.