What rank is "Master Pilot"
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Herod,
M Plt Anderson was also one of my two regular instructors at Syerston in 62/63; the other was M/Plt Hollings. Very different characters but, in their own ways, great instructors.
M Plt Anderson was also one of my two regular instructors at Syerston in 62/63; the other was M/Plt Hollings. Very different characters but, in their own ways, great instructors.
I maintained the Link trainer at RAF Oakington and my boss (who was the instructor))was Master pilot Al Boyes.Perfect gentleman nearly always gave me Thursdays of for a long wkend!!!
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On 242 OMC Henlow, 1970/71 we had, as a student, M Plt (?) "Cherry" Springate, Believe he was decorated for bravery following a helicopter mission. What became of him?
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At Brize Norton in the mid-1970s there was Master Pilot Jack Meakin in ATC and he was the Watch Supervisor irrespective of what Ken Burton the actual aged flight lieutenant and actual ATC supervisor said.
In the Brize Flight Planning room was Master Navigator "Ness" Edwards whose real first name I never found out, he was Ness to everyone including the Station Commander and in an adjacent room to Ness Edwards were two absolutely delightful elderly gentlemen, one of whom was a Master Signaller who's name I cant remember and another was a Master AEO who's nickname was "Harry Chunkers" for some unfathomed reason.
In the Brize Flight Planning room was Master Navigator "Ness" Edwards whose real first name I never found out, he was Ness to everyone including the Station Commander and in an adjacent room to Ness Edwards were two absolutely delightful elderly gentlemen, one of whom was a Master Signaller who's name I cant remember and another was a Master AEO who's nickname was "Harry Chunkers" for some unfathomed reason.
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Master Pilot: How it All Came About.
During the War, the bulk of RAF aircrew were promoted to Sergeant when they got their aircrew wings. If they lasted one year, they got to F/Sgt. If they lasted two years (not many did) they became Warrant Officers.
But there had always been a bit of muttering about this in the Sergean's Messes from Ground Trade sergeants. You could see their point of view. They had sweated their guts out and kept their noses clean for maybe 15 years to reach the rank kudos and (comparitive) luxury of the Sgt's Mess. And here were these kids with perhaps six month's service getting it all on a plate ? 'Tain't right !
Postwar, the Air House sympathised. How would it be if we still let these parvenus into the Sgt's Mess, but made it clear that that they were not "proper" Sgts at all, but just aircrew allowed into the Mess in recognition of their pay scales and skilled status ?
Worth a try ! The "Four-star Brandy" scheme was introduced (in 1947 ?). I may be a bit wrong in detail, but I think tha aircrew Sgts became Pilot 3 (P3); F/Sgts=P2 and they did not have a P1 - he became a "Master", and wore the barathea uniform of a Warrant Officer. As for the "star" badges, I've forgotten, but you can (or could) get it all on Google.
After two or three years, this idea had become the butt of so much hilarity and general derision that the Air House turned tail, and went back to the wartime system. But face must not be lost, one facet of the 4-Star business was kept. The Masters did not go back to Warrant Officer, but remained Masters ! So now you had Master aircrew, F/Sgts and Sgts again, until all the "old Hairies" were finally pensioned off in the sixties), and only young gentlemen were allowed to be Pilots and Navs now (but other aircrew categories were still recruited from the "scruffs").
Many of these old boys in later years gravitated into ATC, which in any case had been invented after the war as a "Sunset Home" for them.
Sneer ? Not at all - this is from an old Sgt/Pilot who was two weeks overdue for his "crown" before he was commissioned - but never did get the money (or the crown !)
Hope that clears it up.
During the War, the bulk of RAF aircrew were promoted to Sergeant when they got their aircrew wings. If they lasted one year, they got to F/Sgt. If they lasted two years (not many did) they became Warrant Officers.
But there had always been a bit of muttering about this in the Sergean's Messes from Ground Trade sergeants. You could see their point of view. They had sweated their guts out and kept their noses clean for maybe 15 years to reach the rank kudos and (comparitive) luxury of the Sgt's Mess. And here were these kids with perhaps six month's service getting it all on a plate ? 'Tain't right !
Postwar, the Air House sympathised. How would it be if we still let these parvenus into the Sgt's Mess, but made it clear that that they were not "proper" Sgts at all, but just aircrew allowed into the Mess in recognition of their pay scales and skilled status ?
Worth a try ! The "Four-star Brandy" scheme was introduced (in 1947 ?). I may be a bit wrong in detail, but I think tha aircrew Sgts became Pilot 3 (P3); F/Sgts=P2 and they did not have a P1 - he became a "Master", and wore the barathea uniform of a Warrant Officer. As for the "star" badges, I've forgotten, but you can (or could) get it all on Google.
After two or three years, this idea had become the butt of so much hilarity and general derision that the Air House turned tail, and went back to the wartime system. But face must not be lost, one facet of the 4-Star business was kept. The Masters did not go back to Warrant Officer, but remained Masters ! So now you had Master aircrew, F/Sgts and Sgts again, until all the "old Hairies" were finally pensioned off in the sixties), and only young gentlemen were allowed to be Pilots and Navs now (but other aircrew categories were still recruited from the "scruffs").
Many of these old boys in later years gravitated into ATC, which in any case had been invented after the war as a "Sunset Home" for them.
Sneer ? Not at all - this is from an old Sgt/Pilot who was two weeks overdue for his "crown" before he was commissioned - but never did get the money (or the crown !)
Hope that clears it up.
Did Master Aircrew receive a warrant? And if so, were they in fact warrant officers with a distinctive appointment/job title?
I ask because the army have had since 1881 warrant officers [the over-arching RANK] with a myriad of APPOINTMENTS such as conductor, master gunner, schoolmaster, bandmaster, RSM etc etc.
In the RAF, how was seniority determined if if push came to shove.?
I ask because the army have had since 1881 warrant officers [the over-arching RANK] with a myriad of APPOINTMENTS such as conductor, master gunner, schoolmaster, bandmaster, RSM etc etc.
In the RAF, how was seniority determined if if push came to shove.?
DC10RM
The Master Signaller could well have been Buzz Stoner. He went on Britannia global trainers to teach us young copilots how to flight plan and do the comms around the world (and how to survive out there!). A true gent who moved over to Lyneham to run the radio logs cell in the early 80s. I repaid him by taking him around the world on a Hercules.
The Master Signaller could well have been Buzz Stoner. He went on Britannia global trainers to teach us young copilots how to flight plan and do the comms around the world (and how to survive out there!). A true gent who moved over to Lyneham to run the radio logs cell in the early 80s. I repaid him by taking him around the world on a Hercules.
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FED (#129),
True - had I remained in UK on UK pay scales. But I was commissioned in India, and the Government of India took over the responsibility of paying the Officers of the Raj properly. My pay as a Pilot Officer (Rs500 /month) was, at Rs14/£ more than double the UK rate. And it went up the ranks.in proportion. We lived like Lords (or would've done if there had been anything to spend the money on).
A Sgt (or any Other. Rank) was only paid the rupee equivalent of his UK pay. - "One Law for the Rich ........... ?"
True - had I remained in UK on UK pay scales. But I was commissioned in India, and the Government of India took over the responsibility of paying the Officers of the Raj properly. My pay as a Pilot Officer (Rs500 /month) was, at Rs14/£ more than double the UK rate. And it went up the ranks.in proportion. We lived like Lords (or would've done if there had been anything to spend the money on).
A Sgt (or any Other. Rank) was only paid the rupee equivalent of his UK pay. - "One Law for the Rich ........... ?"
Same as me MPN11, in the ATC I was Cadet Warrant Officer and Drum Major, had a battle Dress Tunic for each function sporting appropriate rank badges.
Worth a try ! The "Four-star Brandy" scheme was introduced (in 1947 ?). I may be a bit wrong in detail, but I think tha aircrew Sgts became Pilot 3 (P3); F/Sgts=P2 and they did not have a P1 - he became a "Master", and wore the barathea uniform of a Warrant Officer. As for the "star" badges, I've forgotten, but you can (or could) get it all on Google.
Did Master Aircrew receive a warrant? And if so, were they in fact warrant officers with a distinctive appointment/job title?
Langleybaston
Langleybaston
As a former Master Air Loadmaster the urban myth that we were not proper Warrant Officers is just a myth. I have a certificate appointing me a Warrant Officer 'In her Majesty's Royal Air Force'.
The actual certificate is slightly smaller than my later commission certificate.
The actual certificate is slightly smaller than my later commission certificate.
Masters certainly were 'real' WOs! One of our M Eng was on some course or other at some pongo establishment and went into the bar for a pre-dinner drink....
He was told that he couldn't be served until the CSM was in the bar. This didn't go down too well with a rather thirsty 'Caring Ken, the airman's friend', who told the barman that he outranked the WO2 CSM and would like a beer, please. So the barman obliged...
Enter the CSM, who was clearly perplexed by this breach of pongo protocol. But on meeting Ken, they discovered that each had the same militaristic view of life and they got on very well with each other, went into dinner and propped up the bar later until closing time!
He was told that he couldn't be served until the CSM was in the bar. This didn't go down too well with a rather thirsty 'Caring Ken, the airman's friend', who told the barman that he outranked the WO2 CSM and would like a beer, please. So the barman obliged...
Enter the CSM, who was clearly perplexed by this breach of pongo protocol. But on meeting Ken, they discovered that each had the same militaristic view of life and they got on very well with each other, went into dinner and propped up the bar later until closing time!
Master Pilots
Please correct me if wrong, but wasn't there a Master pilot at Wattisham late 60's on the Lightning TFF who had got somehow got through the system?
Cliver...
Cliver...
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And from 1951 to 1964 there were Master Technician's. A rank above a W.O..
MT 'Timber' Wood was on 214 Sqdn to my knowledge, from Feb 59 and was still there as a W.O. when I returned in Oct 64, 7 months after the demise of the rank.
MT 'Timber' Wood was on 214 Sqdn to my knowledge, from Feb 59 and was still there as a W.O. when I returned in Oct 64, 7 months after the demise of the rank.