Weapon System Officer online?
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: England
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biggus,
WSOps are still very much the focus for recruitment. the WSO role is being recruited on a much smaller scale, mainly for GR4.
Rumours at Waddo about the P8 staying south of the border are starting to grow however, they are just rumours! I think we will find out more in the next 18 months or so. There are quite a few WSOs who are keen for the move north but, I'd say that 60-70% of them would prefer to see it at Waddo. The old Kipper fleet guys are trying to relive an old dream imho. Let it go at keep it at the ISTAR Hub!
WSOps are still very much the focus for recruitment. the WSO role is being recruited on a much smaller scale, mainly for GR4.
Rumours at Waddo about the P8 staying south of the border are starting to grow however, they are just rumours! I think we will find out more in the next 18 months or so. There are quite a few WSOs who are keen for the move north but, I'd say that 60-70% of them would prefer to see it at Waddo. The old Kipper fleet guys are trying to relive an old dream imho. Let it go at keep it at the ISTAR Hub!
I see from the RIN's Navigation News that a Master Aircrew has just passed out from the Aero Systems Course at the Air Warfare School, and with an MSc in Aero Systems Studies. Is this a first?
Can anyone explain to me what a "traditional WSO navigator" does on the flightdeck of a RJ/ E3 that can't be achieved by giving an couple of INS/FMS controllers to the pilots?
Is he really just there as a voice activated FMS operator in his present guise? Old rope imporium springs to mind; nice work if you can get it!
Is he really just there as a voice activated FMS operator in his present guise? Old rope imporium springs to mind; nice work if you can get it!
The RJ/E3 nav does the same job as older ME aircraft navs once did, such as on the VC10 and C130K. Certainly with the E3, it's virtually the same flight deck as the original aircraft, hence the need for a flight engineer as well. I understand that the upgrade will remove the nav with a Gucci FMS and rumour has it that this will not be complete until 2029.
Not sure why our brand new RJ's didn't go down that route from day one but I suspect that just like everything else - it's all about the money.
As for NCO aircrew doing the Aero Systems Course, this is not new. Can't remember when the first student completed the course but I think it's been at least 10 - 15 years.
Not sure why our brand new RJ's didn't go down that route from day one but I suspect that just like everything else - it's all about the money.
As for NCO aircrew doing the Aero Systems Course, this is not new. Can't remember when the first student completed the course but I think it's been at least 10 - 15 years.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Oh how we laughed! Politicians come and go and the current PM will be gone before the P8 enters service. Things change but in the finest tradition of the MoD the basing decision will stand until millions have been spent on infrastructure then it will be reviewed and changed.
TOFO,
You say in post 37, with regard the employment of WSOs, that "The RAF has a system that works..". My point is that it doesn't, it did in the past, but not now. It stopped recruiting WSOs, it took apart the training system, and relied, just as in the case of the Air Engineer (also required on E-3D and RJ) on there being enough left in the system to last out the in-service life of aircraft requiring their trade. However, the RAF is now about to buy an aircraft, presumably with at least a 25 year planned life, that people such as yourself are talking about manning with a trade we don't have. All I was saying is why not man it with a trade we do have?
Heresy it would appear, as I'm not following your Be a part of it. instruction, or maybe just evolution rather than revolution?
You say in post 37, with regard the employment of WSOs, that "The RAF has a system that works..". My point is that it doesn't, it did in the past, but not now. It stopped recruiting WSOs, it took apart the training system, and relied, just as in the case of the Air Engineer (also required on E-3D and RJ) on there being enough left in the system to last out the in-service life of aircraft requiring their trade. However, the RAF is now about to buy an aircraft, presumably with at least a 25 year planned life, that people such as yourself are talking about manning with a trade we don't have. All I was saying is why not man it with a trade we do have?
Heresy it would appear, as I'm not following your Be a part of it. instruction, or maybe just evolution rather than revolution?
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Perhaps we could just all read the Shortage of Navs
It's got all the usual suspects with all the usual opinions, only this one has them a year nearer any relevant experiences.
It's got all the usual suspects with all the usual opinions, only this one has them a year nearer any relevant experiences.
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Biggus,
I'm not looking for controversy and my point is a very simple one. I hope the new maritime force spends a little more time being part of the RAF and a little less time trying to be the Royal Kipper Force, as was very much the case in my time. I'm sure you'll know exactly what I mean.
What I meant by my "system that works" comment, is by and large there is no need to re-invent a rank structure that functions throughout the RAF and has done for a long time.
However they man up the new fleet, gentle specialist massaging (ooh er) of the rank structure to fit the aircraft requirements would be sensible imho. As you say evolution...maybe even discrete evolution.
I'll get me coat. Taxi for TOFO.
I'm not looking for controversy and my point is a very simple one. I hope the new maritime force spends a little more time being part of the RAF and a little less time trying to be the Royal Kipper Force, as was very much the case in my time. I'm sure you'll know exactly what I mean.
What I meant by my "system that works" comment, is by and large there is no need to re-invent a rank structure that functions throughout the RAF and has done for a long time.
However they man up the new fleet, gentle specialist massaging (ooh er) of the rank structure to fit the aircraft requirements would be sensible imho. As you say evolution...maybe even discrete evolution.
I'll get me coat. Taxi for TOFO.
Biggus
perhaps a wee bit more knowledge needed.
The E3D does indeed have an Air Engineer, whilst the RJ most certainly doesn't. They both do have Navs, so in this you are correct. 
Party Animal
One of the beauties or the UK RJ, or so I'm led to believe, is that it is part of the upgrade programme as with the US RJ. There is currently no upgrade baseline that has a front end without the Nav. Perhaps in the future, but not now. Nothing whatsoever to do with money.
perhaps a wee bit more knowledge needed.
just as in the case of the Air Engineer (also required on E-3D and RJ)
Party Animal
Not sure why our brand new RJ's didn't go down that route from day one but I suspect that just like everything else - it's all about the money.
I see from the RIN's Navigation News that a Master Aircrew has just passed out from the Aero Systems Course at the Air Warfare School, and with an MSc in Aero Systems Studies. Is this a first?
