LRS-B... The B-21
Quote:
Why's that implausible? You think the CIA decided to transport some junk to Abbotabad as a disinformation tactic?
In simple language:
Yes.
Why's that implausible? You think the CIA decided to transport some junk to Abbotabad as a disinformation tactic?
In simple language:
Yes.
Conspiracists are so easy to read.
Of course!
Then there's no point in me saying any more at the moment then is there ? ( until hard evidence of a Stealth UH-60 from over 8 years ago emerges perhaps ... )
Of course!
Then there's no point in me saying any more at the moment then is there ? ( until hard evidence of a Stealth UH-60 from over 8 years ago emerges perhaps ... )
Thanks ORAC for putting that back up. If anybody is interested they might like to read the comments about Pakistani / USA agency relations made at the time on this thread, then compare them with recent comments made by Imran Kahn .
https://www.thecitizen.co.tz/news/18...bi3/index.html
Then of course the case for "plausible denial" of co-operation in such a high profile operation can be postulated. A "stealth helicopter" coming a cropper (and dumping redundant technology) might fit the bill to exonerate any local agency knowledge of involvement,
Then of course the case for "plausible denial" of co-operation in such a high profile operation can be postulated. A "stealth helicopter" coming a cropper (and dumping redundant technology) might fit the bill to exonerate any local agency knowledge of involvement,
Last edited by Haraka; 26th Jul 2019 at 15:16.
Thank you. So no direct link to the equip[ment used in the raid, though - lots of "might be" "could have", "it's possible that".
Do you have anything other than speculation that suggests the operational risk and logistic challenges of doing what you propose was done would be in any way worthwhile?
So much could have gone wrong yet you're suggesting that it (planting a fake wrecked aircraft) all went right, at night, in a couple of hours, almost in public and in parallel with a highly demanding super-high-profile operational mission*.
I can't see that theory is in any way credible, let alone that it has anything to support it other than open speculation.
*(I'm assuming that you are not denying the reality of the rest of the Bin Laden operation.)
Do you have anything other than speculation that suggests the operational risk and logistic challenges of doing what you propose was done would be in any way worthwhile?
So much could have gone wrong yet you're suggesting that it (planting a fake wrecked aircraft) all went right, at night, in a couple of hours, almost in public and in parallel with a highly demanding super-high-profile operational mission*.
I can't see that theory is in any way credible, let alone that it has anything to support it other than open speculation.
*(I'm assuming that you are not denying the reality of the rest of the Bin Laden operation.)
*(I'm assuming that you are not denying the reality of the rest of the Bin Laden operation.)
Not at all...(I have no grounds to.)
"Do you have anything other than speculation that suggests the operational risk and logistic challenges of doing what you propose was done would be in any way worthwhile?"
The ongoing protection of extremely high value cooperating sources at a critical time in an admitted complex political environment.
Admittedly for different reasons, but bells rang in my head at the time about the (failed) Son Tay raid when ,as part of the plan, a helicopter was deliberately crashed in to a prison compound.
Not at all...(I have no grounds to.)
"Do you have anything other than speculation that suggests the operational risk and logistic challenges of doing what you propose was done would be in any way worthwhile?"
The ongoing protection of extremely high value cooperating sources at a critical time in an admitted complex political environment.
Admittedly for different reasons, but bells rang in my head at the time about the (failed) Son Tay raid when ,as part of the plan, a helicopter was deliberately crashed in to a prison compound.
Last edited by Haraka; 26th Jul 2019 at 16:18.
"Do you have anything other than speculation that suggests the operational risk and logistic challenges of doing what you propose was done would be in any way worthwhile?"
This speculation would be comfortably blown apart if there was any concrete evidence of an in-service "Stealth Blackhawk" and there hasn't been for over eight years now. Nor is there for any other practical stealth helicopter for that matter, and I suspect probably for very good technical and operational reasons.
By definition, concrete evidence of a 'black' programme isn't going to be there. So using the absence of that is going to prove nothing.
As is often said, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".
From a technical perspective, there's lots that is feasible. For example, Google "The Quiet One" OH-6 from the Vietnam era. See also RAH-66 Comanche for other LO.
As is often said, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".
From a technical perspective, there's lots that is feasible. For example, Google "The Quiet One" OH-6 from the Vietnam era. See also RAH-66 Comanche for other LO.
Last edited by hoodie; 26th Jul 2019 at 22:52.
Time will tell (perhaps) I am well aware of The Quiet One, and the Comanche BTW . Not really comparable concepts, but apparently eventually dead end in themselves at least .
I am well aware of The Quiet One, and the Comanche BTW . Not really comparable concepts, but apparently eventually dead end in themselves at least .
Last edited by Haraka; 27th Jul 2019 at 12:35.
"Time will tell..." reminds me of conversations I've had with Argentinians who swear blind Invincible was hit and damaged during the war.
Impossible to argue against, because the 'proof' will emerge at some unspecified point in the future.
As with all sensitive projects, there is a degree of disinformation..
It's now over eight years on from a certain even in Pakistan in May 2011 : anybody got a photo of a stealth Blackhawk yet ? Some may have noticed that Imran Kahn made an interesting comment about that mission recently which could be interpreted as supporting my much mocked supposition over the years.
It's now over eight years on from a certain even in Pakistan in May 2011 : anybody got a photo of a stealth Blackhawk yet ?
Some may have noticed that Imran Kahn made an interesting comment about that mission recently which could be interpreted as supporting my much mocked supposition over the years.You cite the lack of evidence over the years for a stealth helicopter as evidence that there never was one. By the same token then, the lack of evidence over the years that a disinformation mission took place should suggest that it probably didn't.
After more than eight years now since my first airing the topic on Pprune , no sign of a stealth Blackhawk..
Such a platform would have been a reasonable justification for exonerating any Pakistani agency involvement, were it to exist practicably as part of an extremely sensitive and very high value operation politically in the area.
It was key to the operation that Pakistani involvement be plausibly denied, Indeed such an admission could be seen to jeopardize other area ops.Any cooperation would have to have been covert for pretty obvious reasons..
The USA has thrown helicopters away deliberately in the past on sensitive ops (admittedly for different reasons) . so that might have spurred the germ of the idea-even dumping a discontinued prototype .
Following years of silence Imran Kahn has now recently guardedly stated that there was Pakistani intelligence involvement in the operation, contrary to initial statements at the time of the op from the USA. .
There are no known operational stealth american helicopters to this day, neither do they seem to be in the offing in the near future. .
So let' s now get back to the B-21 shall we? (and apologies for the diversion)
Such a platform would have been a reasonable justification for exonerating any Pakistani agency involvement, were it to exist practicably as part of an extremely sensitive and very high value operation politically in the area.
It was key to the operation that Pakistani involvement be plausibly denied, Indeed such an admission could be seen to jeopardize other area ops.Any cooperation would have to have been covert for pretty obvious reasons..
The USA has thrown helicopters away deliberately in the past on sensitive ops (admittedly for different reasons) . so that might have spurred the germ of the idea-even dumping a discontinued prototype .
Following years of silence Imran Kahn has now recently guardedly stated that there was Pakistani intelligence involvement in the operation, contrary to initial statements at the time of the op from the USA. .
There are no known operational stealth american helicopters to this day, neither do they seem to be in the offing in the near future. .
So let' s now get back to the B-21 shall we? (and apologies for the diversion)
After more than eight years now since my first airing the topic on PPRuNe , no sign of a stealth Blackhawk...
After more than eight years now since my first airing the topic on Pprune , no sign of a stealth Blackhawk..
Such a platform would have been a reasonable justification for exonerating any Pakistani agency involvement, were it to exist practicably as part of an extremely sensitive and very high value operation politically in the area.
It was key to the operation that Pakistani involvement be plausibly denied, Indeed such an admission could be seen to jeopardize other area ops.Any cooperation would have to have been covert for pretty obvious reasons..
The USA has thrown helicopters away deliberately in the past on sensitive ops (admittedly for different reasons) . so that might have spurred the germ of the idea-even dumping a discontinued prototype .
Following years of silence Imran Kahn has now recently guardedly stated that there was Pakistani intelligence involvement in the operation, contrary to initial statements at the time of the op from the USA. .
There are no known operational stealth american helicopters to this day, neither do they seem to be in the offing in the near future. .
So let' s now get back to the B-21 shall we? (and apologies for the diversion)
Such a platform would have been a reasonable justification for exonerating any Pakistani agency involvement, were it to exist practicably as part of an extremely sensitive and very high value operation politically in the area.
It was key to the operation that Pakistani involvement be plausibly denied, Indeed such an admission could be seen to jeopardize other area ops.Any cooperation would have to have been covert for pretty obvious reasons..
The USA has thrown helicopters away deliberately in the past on sensitive ops (admittedly for different reasons) . so that might have spurred the germ of the idea-even dumping a discontinued prototype .
Following years of silence Imran Kahn has now recently guardedly stated that there was Pakistani intelligence involvement in the operation, contrary to initial statements at the time of the op from the USA. .
There are no known operational stealth american helicopters to this day, neither do they seem to be in the offing in the near future. .
So let' s now get back to the B-21 shall we? (and apologies for the diversion)
You simply aren't able to view the information required to make any kind of authoritative statement one way or another.
You don't know what you don't know.
