Airborne Nuclear Weapons incidents
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Not exactly the same but...
There was an incident on the A303 west of RNAS Yeovilton and as I recall on the Ilminster bypass (when it was two lane and not three). And as I recall this was in the spring or summer of 1988. A student in a small sports car crashed into the heavy vehicles carrying the nuclear weapons being transported from somewhere in England down the A303 and onwards to Devonport.
Overnight crash? Student was killed. I saw the car in a local garage at Tintinhull.Flattened, poor young guy.
Cant remember much more about it. Bet you many such things have gone on. Crazy, in retrospect.
Cant even remember why we had these weapons. Were they air dropped onto submarines? Seems crazy now, as all conflict does with age.
Not secret, this was in the papers.
Overnight crash? Student was killed. I saw the car in a local garage at Tintinhull.Flattened, poor young guy.
Cant remember much more about it. Bet you many such things have gone on. Crazy, in retrospect.
Cant even remember why we had these weapons. Were they air dropped onto submarines? Seems crazy now, as all conflict does with age.
Not secret, this was in the papers.
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Found the dit here...was in September 1988.
In 2001 the MoD published an incomplete nuclear convoy accident list | Nuclear Information Service
I tend to believe the troublesome hippies these days rather than the MOD stiffs. The accident could have been horrendous. If it had been a petrol tanker that crashed into the convoy...terrorist ambush? Plenty of life changing disasters in the late 1980's in the UK.
I tend to believe the troublesome hippies these days rather than the MOD stiffs. The accident could have been horrendous. If it had been a petrol tanker that crashed into the convoy...terrorist ambush? Plenty of life changing disasters in the late 1980's in the UK.
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Not the Lakenheath crash, but this one indicates that it might not have been quite as physically impossible for an accident to cause a nuclear detonation as one would have liked.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Goldsboro_B-52_crash
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Goldsboro_B-52_crash
Many years ago, well more than 20, I was OC Handbrakes at a large base near Huntingdon and the A1. One of my "secondary" duties was NARO - Nuclear Accident Response. I had some officers and airmen allocated, some vehicles and a "mobile" telephone the size of my largest Oxford English Dictionary, which with its batteries, was in a large suitcase which was just about possible to lift. As I recall we only ever had one exercise, on the airfield, and it was more "talk" than action. Fortunately we were never called out, in my time anyway.
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There is quite a lot of info out there, now I'd be very interested as to why I once saw a GLCM tractor unit and command vehicle far to the west of their normal operational area.....
That and how many flights it took to empty the SSA at St Mawgan when the yanks pulled the NDB out
That and how many flights it took to empty the SSA at St Mawgan when the yanks pulled the NDB out
Wanderoo:
The Met. Office had and has
Procedures And Communications in the event of a release of Radioactive Material (PACRAM)
My generation of C and P Met Os [we reached that level c. 1980] certainly took our regional responsibility seriously and undertook no-notice exercises with Police and Fire services.
Before that, I rather think the procedures and algorithms were "kept in a box file in the cupboard". The first no-notice I provoked at Cardiff Weather Centre caused a lot of fluttering and sqawking!
The Met. Office had and has
Procedures And Communications in the event of a release of Radioactive Material (PACRAM)
My generation of C and P Met Os [we reached that level c. 1980] certainly took our regional responsibility seriously and undertook no-notice exercises with Police and Fire services.
Before that, I rather think the procedures and algorithms were "kept in a box file in the cupboard". The first no-notice I provoked at Cardiff Weather Centre caused a lot of fluttering and sqawking!
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Did something happen at a Wittering in the 1950s/60s?
I have a relative who grew up in the village and I remember him telling me about some sort of incident when he was a kid.
I recall local milk was banned, and they were spoken to by someone from the RAF about not touching anything unusual they found on the ground.
He was only a kid so can't remember the details. He told me about it 20 years ago.
I have a relative who grew up in the village and I remember him telling me about some sort of incident when he was a kid.
I recall local milk was banned, and they were spoken to by someone from the RAF about not touching anything unusual they found on the ground.
He was only a kid so can't remember the details. He told me about it 20 years ago.
Treble one ; Its my understanding that V bombers never flew with live weapons (apart from on weapon tests of course). Or in Thunderball.
In fact, its possible that the only time they were ever loaded with live weapons was during the Cuban crisis..... but that it an assumption not a fact.
a/c were regularly loaded up on exercises then downloaded before flight. The load team you never knew if it was a live or training weapon till you took the cover off.
In fact, its possible that the only time they were ever loaded with live weapons was during the Cuban crisis..... but that it an assumption not a fact.
a/c were regularly loaded up on exercises then downloaded before flight. The load team you never knew if it was a live or training weapon till you took the cover off.
langleybaston wrote
Quote:
Thinking out loud, one wonders, for example, how weapons [if there were any] were retrieved from RAFG during the run-down.
Other than secretly, of course.
Well quite secretly but they were returned to UK in the same way they were sent out, on a C130. As I recall the RAFG QRA stood down around early 1988 and the SSA was closed in 1996 when all weapons were returned to Honingtons SSA. They were then moved over time back to AWE with Honington SSA closing after the last convoy left in 2001.
Within the UK all weapon movements were done by road convoys.
Quote:
Thinking out loud, one wonders, for example, how weapons [if there were any] were retrieved from RAFG during the run-down.
Other than secretly, of course.
Well quite secretly but they were returned to UK in the same way they were sent out, on a C130. As I recall the RAFG QRA stood down around early 1988 and the SSA was closed in 1996 when all weapons were returned to Honingtons SSA. They were then moved over time back to AWE with Honington SSA closing after the last convoy left in 2001.
Within the UK all weapon movements were done by road convoys.
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Weapons when on Dispersal
What was the standard practice when the V Force went to its dispersal airfields?
I assume that if the dispersal was for real, that war rounds would be loaded prior to dispersal and that the aircraft would sit armed at their dispersal ramps ready to go at 5 or 15 minutes. Thus making the loading of weapons at the dispersal site not possible.
Am I reading this thread correctly in that on all the dispersal exercises that were undertaken, that all the dispersed planes had drill rounds on them and so the only aircraft that could have launched a retaliatory strike during a dispersal exercise were those at the main bases?
Or have I misunderstood what has been posted above?
I assume that if the dispersal was for real, that war rounds would be loaded prior to dispersal and that the aircraft would sit armed at their dispersal ramps ready to go at 5 or 15 minutes. Thus making the loading of weapons at the dispersal site not possible.
Am I reading this thread correctly in that on all the dispersal exercises that were undertaken, that all the dispersed planes had drill rounds on them and so the only aircraft that could have launched a retaliatory strike during a dispersal exercise were those at the main bases?
Or have I misunderstood what has been posted above?
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TTN, tut tut.
Dave, no live rounds on the bombers.
HS, the OP referred aircraft accidents in-flight AFAIK.
Tyne, correct, Violet C!ub IIRC. The milk issue was probably Strontium 90 after the accident at Sellafield, same period. Live weapons were loaded on all QRA aircraft until the RN took over. Live weapons also unused some exercises twice a year or more and also on other alerts other than Cuba.
PhilipG, dispersal exercises such as Mickey Finn, Kinsman etc were only flown with drill rounds. Where we had insufficient drill rounds a live weapon would be loaded, clock stopped,downloaded and then the aircraft floiwn off. Remember exercises were just that. Had warnings and indicators suggested a risk of war it would have been cancelled. Remember, to an observer, it looked real and could have increased tensions.
Dave, no live rounds on the bombers.
HS, the OP referred aircraft accidents in-flight AFAIK.
Tyne, correct, Violet C!ub IIRC. The milk issue was probably Strontium 90 after the accident at Sellafield, same period. Live weapons were loaded on all QRA aircraft until the RN took over. Live weapons also unused some exercises twice a year or more and also on other alerts other than Cuba.
PhilipG, dispersal exercises such as Mickey Finn, Kinsman etc were only flown with drill rounds. Where we had insufficient drill rounds a live weapon would be loaded, clock stopped,downloaded and then the aircraft floiwn off. Remember exercises were just that. Had warnings and indicators suggested a risk of war it would have been cancelled. Remember, to an observer, it looked real and could have increased tensions.
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Being part of the Special Safety Team, we were informed that Nuclear weapons would only transported by road or rail & as a result we would only be involved if there was a road crash or rail crash. It is interesting that 814man mentions transporting weapons in C130's to RAFG. Also, Davef68 pointer to the Royal Air Force Historical Society document where AVM Michael Robinson states that a Nuclear weapon was transported from Cyprus in a VC10 ??
As 814man has written about RAFG [thank you!] I was personally involved when the C130s returned weapons to the UK, answering SASO's "what-ifs" regarding the behaviour of any contamination post-crash.
I also checked the route forecast issued by Brueggen before signing it off.
The flight days were a bit tense for many of us.
I also checked the route forecast issued by Brueggen before signing it off.
The flight days were a bit tense for many of us.
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I worked on weapon release gear in the 1950s and 60s.
Remember that even little things like a Wasp or a Lynx could carry a nuclear depth bomb.
We had mechaised safety pins in our release units for "special weapons" the word nuclear was hardly ever used, operated by a special swith, wirelocked, only to be unlocked by special codeword, , the US has solenoids to remove safety pins in flight, but could not then put it back.
Remember that even little things like a Wasp or a Lynx could carry a nuclear depth bomb.
We had mechaised safety pins in our release units for "special weapons" the word nuclear was hardly ever used, operated by a special swith, wirelocked, only to be unlocked by special codeword, , the US has solenoids to remove safety pins in flight, but could not then put it back.
Last edited by Exnomad; 30th Jan 2016 at 10:39.
Rail transport is used for some civilian nuclear material going to power stations for example, but I'm not aware that weapons were ever moved by rail. There was of course the Chinook trial back in the day, but it was not exactly a huge success........
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It should have been obvious that there were no rail or road links to overseas bases.
I believe the Britannia was the normal means of transport down route though HMG can neither confirm nor deny . . .
I believe the Britannia was the normal means of transport down route though HMG can neither confirm nor deny . . .
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"Within the UK all weapon movements were done by road convoys."
Not so. The alternative transport arrangements were used periodically to ensure there was no loss of expertise.
Not so. The alternative transport arrangements were used periodically to ensure there was no loss of expertise.
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Funny story about what it would have been like on the receiving end. During the early 70's I was a radar tech stationed on a mountain top just NW of the Golden Gate Bridge. We had a exercise. I was given a stopwatch, a compass, a telephone, and a dosimeter, and told to sit in a foxhole on the edge of the peak with a gorgeous view of the San Francisco Bay Area. There was a phone jack for the phone. I was to scan the scene, and when I saw the flash of a nuke going off, start my stopwatch and use my compass to take a bearing to the mushroom cloud. When I heard the bang I was to note the time interval, and phone in the bearing and time. In the operations building they had a large map of the bay area, with a measuring stick marked in seconds at the speed of sound. They would swing that to the bearing and mark the distance given by the flash/bang interval. The dosimeter was a yellow pen-like thing. You looked thru it like a telescope and you'd see a scale and some indicator of how much radiation you'd been exposed to. I put it in the pocket of my field jacket and forgot to return it, still have it. I laugh to think what it would have been like, an earnest 21 yr old trying to keep track of flash/bang intervals as nukes went off like popcorn popping.