"Dumbing down" RAF Officers?
socks back to front?
Not 1st April is it?
Not 1st April is it?
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Dumbing down RAF officers
Got fully commisioned rather than "acting" with only a few weeks left of National Service.
Posted to Cluntoe as "supernumery officer", otherwords no job. spent the last few weeks of my national service doing inventory checks. Cluntoe was at that time a new station with prop driven Prentices. Stores had requisistioned things from HQ, and what had arrived was not always what had had been requisitioned, so spent time bringing records up to date.
As Station duty officer, light relief, found donkey wandered on to perimeter track, handed it over to guardroom, who were not pleased. We had fed it proper Irish guiness, so it was a but unsteady on its feet.
Did manage to serve as Duty officer and orderly officer without disaster.
Posted to Cluntoe as "supernumery officer", otherwords no job. spent the last few weeks of my national service doing inventory checks. Cluntoe was at that time a new station with prop driven Prentices. Stores had requisistioned things from HQ, and what had arrived was not always what had had been requisitioned, so spent time bringing records up to date.
As Station duty officer, light relief, found donkey wandered on to perimeter track, handed it over to guardroom, who were not pleased. We had fed it proper Irish guiness, so it was a but unsteady on its feet.
Did manage to serve as Duty officer and orderly officer without disaster.
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Are the training staff any good
An alternative view for consideration:
I agree with other posters that IOT is simply a foundation to:
Firstly teach those that want to enter the 'Club', the rules of this 'Club'
and secondly to expose those qualities/skills/knowledge that the men and women under one's command will look for in their officers. But it is clear that a training course can only scratch the surface and exposure to real people will brings its own learning environment.
So my question is what is the selection process for the Flt Cdrs at IOT? Is it designed to select the best...or those with recent operational experience...or those that have a bent for leadership? Or is the selection process simply asking for someone that wants to live in Lincolnshire? Because in those formative years it would be good to have a Flt Cdr that one could look up to. How many of the posters can claim they had an exemplar Flt Cdr? Perhaps if we want less dumbing down we should look at the basics first and get that right.
I agree with other posters that IOT is simply a foundation to:
Firstly teach those that want to enter the 'Club', the rules of this 'Club'
and secondly to expose those qualities/skills/knowledge that the men and women under one's command will look for in their officers. But it is clear that a training course can only scratch the surface and exposure to real people will brings its own learning environment.
So my question is what is the selection process for the Flt Cdrs at IOT? Is it designed to select the best...or those with recent operational experience...or those that have a bent for leadership? Or is the selection process simply asking for someone that wants to live in Lincolnshire? Because in those formative years it would be good to have a Flt Cdr that one could look up to. How many of the posters can claim they had an exemplar Flt Cdr? Perhaps if we want less dumbing down we should look at the basics first and get that right.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The 1, my poster gave me a posting to IOT, thankfully they said I was too old.
OTOH my son in law was a flt cdr with several years experience as a SSgt and his 2nd your as flt lt. He is now a wg cdr.
OTOH my son in law was a flt cdr with several years experience as a SSgt and his 2nd your as flt lt. He is now a wg cdr.
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IOT was useful...
... in enabling me to improve my GSK exam score from 79.5% (fail), gained a few days after entry, to something slightly North of the pass mark (80%) a few days later.
I knew how to launder/iron/clean/tie a bowtie/hold a knife & fork/greet a lady/speak politely whilst drunk/stand up straight whilst drunk/eat whilst drunk/find my own way back to my room whilst drunk/find a toilet without urinating in a wardrobe whilst drunk/cope with a stonking hangover the morning after, WELL before arriving at Cranwell.
It DID teach me that people with Northern accents may sound like thickos but may not in fact be - although having lived in Lincolnshi*e for too long I remain unconvinced...
I knew how to launder/iron/clean/tie a bowtie/hold a knife & fork/greet a lady/speak politely whilst drunk/stand up straight whilst drunk/eat whilst drunk/find my own way back to my room whilst drunk/find a toilet without urinating in a wardrobe whilst drunk/cope with a stonking hangover the morning after, WELL before arriving at Cranwell.
It DID teach me that people with Northern accents may sound like thickos but may not in fact be - although having lived in Lincolnshi*e for too long I remain unconvinced...
What does the tabloid want then or its readers, a US or European academy style education or to close Cranwell and make everyone go through Sandhurst bar the navy as Sandhurst is pretty much a year course. The other longest is the RM which in effect is 18 months.
Here is an example, mate of mine graduated from the Renaissancelaan as an army officer (now Land Component) back in the noughties. Two of her mates went through the same course but they were air force entrants (now Air Component) One ended up being F-16 display pilot performing at Mildenhall Air Fete and RIAT. Her other mate ended up flying Sea King on SAR duties.
After a four year of hell, she and the above guys got their BA or BSc as well as the Kings Commission.
The Ocdts regardless whether they were going to be infantry or cav officers or under the light blue who went onto fly F-16, Fat Albert etc did the same infantry training and leadership , only at different points did the air force lot did some of their stuff differently.
Their Naval Component have their own separate academy.
The above lot inc my mate went into the academy at age 17/18/19
It follows the likes of Annapolis, Colorado Springs, West Point - then across the Channel with most of NATO do the four years and earn yourself a degree.
Admittedly the states has several ways of earning a commission with the popular university ROTC and the various Officer Candidate Schools.
The latter especially the air force one at Lackland reminds me of the Henlow course in terms of course length? Am I right??
I have been shot down before in suggesting an structured ROTC type course run with the UAS/UOTC/URNU could possibly work. It does work across the pond....all one has to do is pull up a biography of either a USN or USAF or U Army aircrew officer whose in charge of a unit and most of them have an ROTC commission compared to those who are academy grads.
In the RAF 2010 or 2011 yearbook one sees in the top shelf in WH Smiths, there was an article on the SHF titled "From Careers Office to Helmand" or something along those lines about those wishing to enter the RAF to fly the Support Helicopter Force and support the troops
Just those titles reminded me of the US Army's Warrant Officer aviator recruiting posters aptly dubbed 'From High School to Flight School'
Food for thought,
cheers
Here is an example, mate of mine graduated from the Renaissancelaan as an army officer (now Land Component) back in the noughties. Two of her mates went through the same course but they were air force entrants (now Air Component) One ended up being F-16 display pilot performing at Mildenhall Air Fete and RIAT. Her other mate ended up flying Sea King on SAR duties.
After a four year of hell, she and the above guys got their BA or BSc as well as the Kings Commission.
The Ocdts regardless whether they were going to be infantry or cav officers or under the light blue who went onto fly F-16, Fat Albert etc did the same infantry training and leadership , only at different points did the air force lot did some of their stuff differently.
Their Naval Component have their own separate academy.
The above lot inc my mate went into the academy at age 17/18/19
It follows the likes of Annapolis, Colorado Springs, West Point - then across the Channel with most of NATO do the four years and earn yourself a degree.
Admittedly the states has several ways of earning a commission with the popular university ROTC and the various Officer Candidate Schools.
The latter especially the air force one at Lackland reminds me of the Henlow course in terms of course length? Am I right??
I have been shot down before in suggesting an structured ROTC type course run with the UAS/UOTC/URNU could possibly work. It does work across the pond....all one has to do is pull up a biography of either a USN or USAF or U Army aircrew officer whose in charge of a unit and most of them have an ROTC commission compared to those who are academy grads.
In the RAF 2010 or 2011 yearbook one sees in the top shelf in WH Smiths, there was an article on the SHF titled "From Careers Office to Helmand" or something along those lines about those wishing to enter the RAF to fly the Support Helicopter Force and support the troops
Just those titles reminded me of the US Army's Warrant Officer aviator recruiting posters aptly dubbed 'From High School to Flight School'
Food for thought,
cheers
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Chopper, simply numbers. Need to limit the number of schools. Need to limit the number of instructors*. It is also wrong to equate IOT or whatever as the only training for the potential officer.
All ab initio officers undergo post-graduate training or one sort or another. I know that officer training for navigators did not stop when they got to nav school and no doubt further mentoring is given at OCU and sqn.
Then more training is given as one's career advances (or not).
*On instructor numbers, in late 80s some 95 navs were employed turning out about 120 navigators per year. Assuming a 2.5 year tour that was roughly 3 new navs per instructor per tour. A reduced student throughput could not be met with a corresponding reduction in instructor numbers as the same number of Specialists were needed for a class of 6 or 20.
All ab initio officers undergo post-graduate training or one sort or another. I know that officer training for navigators did not stop when they got to nav school and no doubt further mentoring is given at OCU and sqn.
Then more training is given as one's career advances (or not).
*On instructor numbers, in late 80s some 95 navs were employed turning out about 120 navigators per year. Assuming a 2.5 year tour that was roughly 3 new navs per instructor per tour. A reduced student throughput could not be met with a corresponding reduction in instructor numbers as the same number of Specialists were needed for a class of 6 or 20.
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At a later stage, select those with the aptitude; put them on the General List, and give them the education they will need in more senior positions
If right, how does that work? I cannot imagine sitting down to Dinner with the risk of having someone, probably RAF, beside me holding his knife and fork wrongly. In itself that's manageable, one can always advise discreetly, but would the bounder have anything interesting to say? What's more, he might even be a woman!! After all, there is one of those now in charge of a Sandhurst College. Need I say more?
Other than the AAC, do either of the other lots pass the port as one is accustomed to?
My only formal service dinner other than with aviators various was with the RA and I was too far gone to pay much attention.
My only formal service dinner other than with aviators various was with the RA and I was too far gone to pay much attention.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
LB, having dined in I noticed the red jobs didn't seem to have grasped the need to actually pass the Port. I now appreciate the RAF habit of not letting the decanter resting on the table.
Madam Vice would have died of thirst on the top table had I not rescued a decanter.
I admit their silver was magnificent.
Madam Vice would have died of thirst on the top table had I not rescued a decanter.
I admit their silver was magnificent.
The RAF 'habit' of not allowing the decanter to touch the table is something which seemed to creep in during the 1980s and is actually bolleaux!
The best passing of the port I recall was when I was a guest of ULOTC. Their port decanters were in a magnificent silver model of a horse-drawn gun limber, which one wheeled down the table from person to person.
Those decanters were simply removed and replaced by each diner when filling their glass - and not in that 'council' manner of filling it to the brim as practised by some supplementary list oiks either.
Of course our pongo chums have far more wedgimental plunder following their centuries of existence than the RAF could ever have....
After RAFC went comprehensive, they found the need to issue a 'how to use one's cutlery' guide for the benefit of the peasants who should have been at that place in Bedfordshire and for whom using anything other than a dagger or wooden spoon was probably a distinct novelty. Some OT clown had suggested that 'foreign food' such as frogs legs or snails could be eaten with the fingers - I would love to have seen him try eating a snail that way without receiving second degree burns to the fingers!
The best passing of the port I recall was when I was a guest of ULOTC. Their port decanters were in a magnificent silver model of a horse-drawn gun limber, which one wheeled down the table from person to person.
Those decanters were simply removed and replaced by each diner when filling their glass - and not in that 'council' manner of filling it to the brim as practised by some supplementary list oiks either.
Of course our pongo chums have far more wedgimental plunder following their centuries of existence than the RAF could ever have....
After RAFC went comprehensive, they found the need to issue a 'how to use one's cutlery' guide for the benefit of the peasants who should have been at that place in Bedfordshire and for whom using anything other than a dagger or wooden spoon was probably a distinct novelty. Some OT clown had suggested that 'foreign food' such as frogs legs or snails could be eaten with the fingers - I would love to have seen him try eating a snail that way without receiving second degree burns to the fingers!
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BEagle,
Once again we wave the BS Flag.
To fairly criticize "the place in Bedfordshire" you should be sure of your facts and not just believe the propaganda that was passed to you by the DS at CWL, just to make you all feel superior.
The RAF 'habit' of not allowing the decanter to touch the table is something which seemed to creep in during the 1980s and is actually bolleaux!
To fairly criticize "the place in Bedfordshire" you should be sure of your facts and not just believe the propaganda that was passed to you by the DS at CWL, just to make you all feel superior.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
IIRC, when I were as ITS that place in Bedfordshire was the college of knowledge for the backroom boys without whom . . .
Was Sleaford Tech the preserve of 6th form graduates studying for 3 years to become proper officers rather than snobs?
Was Sleaford Tech the preserve of 6th form graduates studying for 3 years to become proper officers rather than snobs?