UK MFTS Fixed Wing Flying Training : The Future

[The B Word]

Rumour is that they have been summoned for borrowing stuff out of the bar outside drinking hours without returning it? So nowt to do with the video.

[Whenurhappy]

Originally Posted by Baldeep Inminj

Not a chance. A few things borrowed from the bar...a minor ‘bosses talk’ at best. There is a more sinister force at work here and these innocent lads will be scapegoats for it.
MFTS is terrified the country, the press and most importantly the taxpayer will learn how appalling it is. It is destroying training yet costing more than the system it replaced.
It was a huge mistake. Those who implemented it are culpable of negligence. The Press will soon be all over this, and rightfully so. Those responsible for this completely foreseeable waste of taxpayers money must be held to account.

I still remain gobsmacked that a certain 3* at Air Command got to 3* in spite of presiding over MFTS for a good couple of years and did nothing in that time to rectify MFTS.

[father_teds_father]

Originally Posted by high spirits

It’s now out in public. Try Fill Your Boots on FB.

Three and a half years, just to complete the Shawbury element of flying training?

[sangiovese.]

Regardless of the message the sense of humour of those students is required if you’re SH in Kosovo Afghanistan Iraq NI insert location here. Well done guys.

[The...Bird]

Is anything actually improving about MFTS? It seems to just be getting worse.
I've heard the guys on EFT or just finishing EFT at the moment finished IOT nearly 3 years ago!

[Baldeep Inminj]

Originally Posted by father_teds_father

Three and a half years, just to complete the Shawbury element of flying training?

Not actually correct - the real situation is worse. The rotary course includes a large maritime element, which all graduates of MFTS have NOT completed. More than 2 years after the arrival of the new maritime training helicopter, the H145, the overwater and winching phase is still not happening.
This is yet another way in which MFTS is vastly inferior to the system it replaced.
When you see one of those Ascent Press Releases talking about a course graduating from Shawbury, ask what they have actually done - ask if they received training in those crucial skills that they would have been taught under the previous system. The answer is no.

[wallsend]

https://www.facebook.com/FYBRAF/

[[email protected]]

Apparently, Ascent's plan to fund the purchase of more 145s (who would have thought their initial numbers were woefully inadequate) involved offering the AAC a bunch of 135s at a highly inflated price, well over the cost of new ones............I believe they were told to ram it.

How do these people stay in business? Oh yes, Govt handouts and a poor contract......

[FloaterNorthWest]

Crab,

How can Ascent sell something they don’t own? And are they buying the 145s?

FNW

[Baldeep Inminj]

FNW is quite correct. Ascent do not own the aircraft, they are the property of the MOD.

[PlasticCabDriver]

Originally Posted by The B Word

Rumour is that they have been summoned for borrowing stuff out of the bar outside drinking hours without returning it? So nowt to do with the video.

so did they graduate yesterday or not?

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by Baldeep Inminj

FNW is quite correct. Ascent do not own the aircraft, they are the property of the MOD.

Then perhaps they have been negotiating on behalf of MOD or perhaps Airbus have been involved - either way Ascent needs more 145s and someone will have to pay for them. No doubt the British taxpayer.
Perhaps the same senior officers who f**cked this up in the first place are now trying to work out how to rob Peter to pay Paul and acquire new 145s so the training contract can actually start to work.
All the risk with this contract seems to fall to the taxpayer and someone thought this was a great idea.

[Baldeep Inminj]

The setup of Rotary MFTS is complicated. Ascent managed to get the MOD to agree to a contract in which Ascent design the training, Ascent select the Aircraft, Airbus ‘run’ the aircraft, but the MOD pays for them. Bear in mind that the reason for MFTS was an NAO report saying that training cost too much and took too long.
It was, of course, a naive report- training is expensive.
Regardless, MFTS was set up to save money and time in training, and this is clear in every decision taken by Ascent. They selected the cheapest aircraft, and the huge proportion of training that is for rearcrew just stopped, as the H135 is unfit for purpose...but my goodness they are cheap!
The MOD made a fundamentally flawed decision to proceed with MFTS, but they did, and the question is how to fix it. It presently costs more per trainee than the previous system, takes far longer, and produces an inferior product as key elements are no longer being trained...all of which was clearly foreseeable by the instructors on the shop-floor.
I believe there should be a parliamentary inquiry into this situation to determine if it really is the grossly negligent use of taxpayers money that it certainly appears to be.

[teeteringhead]

all of which was clearly foreseeable by the instructors on the shop-floor.

But we/they were never properly consulted...... What do they know who are doing it??

[BEagle]

Incidentally, have any ME students graduated yet on the few Phenoms which haven't collided with each other?

Has anyone yet seen any report on the 2 Phenoms (ZM335 & ZM336) which had the mid-air on 3 July 2018?

[H Peacock]

Originally Posted by BEagle

Incidentally, have any ME students graduated yet on the few Phenoms which haven't collided with each other?

Nope, all MEPT graduating studes have either flown 335 or 336, if not both!

anyone yet seen any report on the 2 Phenoms (ZM335 & ZM336) which had the mid-air on 3 July 2018?

Yep!

[ExAscoteer2]

A total bloody disaster. I despair, I truly do.

[Davef68]

Originally Posted by Baldeep Inminj

FNW is quite correct. Ascent do not own the aircraft, they are the property of the MOD.

Does the same apply to the fixed wing element - I recall seeng something that said the T6s would 'eventually' become MOD property

[Vortex Hoop]

Originally Posted by Baldeep Inminj

Not actually correct - the real situation is worse. The rotary course includes a large maritime element, which all graduates of MFTS have NOT completed. More than 2 years after the arrival of the new maritime training helicopter, the H145, the overwater and winching phase is still not happening.
This is yet another way in which MFTS is vastly inferior to the system it replaced.
When you see one of those Ascent Press Releases talking about a course graduating from Shawbury, ask what they have actually done - ask if they received training in those crucial skills that they would have been taught under the previous system. The answer is no.

WIWOL Griffins, the SARTU phase was pass/fail. People who would have done well on SH were chopped on the Maritime phase for shaky hovering during decks 'n wets, despite never even wishing to see a picture of a Sea King, let alone fly one! Good fun in hindsight though. Landing on the Dublin-Holyhead ferry was fun.

[[email protected]]

Vortex - my very first student as a baby B2 QHI at SARTU (1989) decided he definitely didn't want SAR post Shawbury - his flying was fine over land but went to pieces inexplicably over the water. An overheard comment from one of his course mates led to the penny dropping for me - he had deliberately failed the sortie. After a firm debrief in which he was reminded that if he didn't pass SARTU, he didn't get his wings at all, suddenly he was good as gold again.

Baldeep - good post