Children have no place in the British Army.
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Children have no place in the British Army.
Must admit I found this an excellent article. And at times a compelling argument.
Children have no place in the British army | Mark Bostridge | Opinion | The Guardian
But the reply immediately below it, by a chap using the alias of Tonester7 is possibly even better.
I have mixed feelings myself about people being allowed to join HMF below the age of 18. Snap decision - no. Because I'm older and more cynical to boot, probably.
Children have no place in the British army | Mark Bostridge | Opinion | The Guardian
But the reply immediately below it, by a chap using the alias of Tonester7 is possibly even better.
I have mixed feelings myself about people being allowed to join HMF below the age of 18. Snap decision - no. Because I'm older and more cynical to boot, probably.
Suggest you learn about David Hackworth.
He was born the same year as my Aunt, and seems to have joined the Army in 1945 or 1946. Age 16. He ended up being very good a that whole Army thing.
Age is a number. Some in their late teens will adapt (had numerous sailors who enlisted at 17 with a waiver who served in my units) quite well to the military environment. And some won't. Heck, some who join as adults (21+) don't adapt.
Hackworth joined the U.S. Merchant Marine at age 14, towards the end of World War II, when teenagers routinely entered the armed services before their 18th birthday by lying about their age. After the war, he lied again to enlist in the United States Army.
Age is a number. Some in their late teens will adapt (had numerous sailors who enlisted at 17 with a waiver who served in my units) quite well to the military environment. And some won't. Heck, some who join as adults (21+) don't adapt.
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HS
And a pacifist now I guess..
Glad I wasn't in the Navy, if many are like you!
And a pacifist now I guess..
Glad I wasn't in the Navy, if many are like you!
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I joined the RAF at 16 though only a month before my 17th. (Attestation date) but was 17 when I entered. Do I think it would have made a difference in active service.. No, any regrets, yes, the period did not count towards pensionable service which is plainly wrong.
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the period did not count towards pensionable service which is plainly wrong
Pity we did not have to pay our taxes for those 2 years.....
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HS,
What would you rather have those unemployed 16 year olds do? If not the Forces, then I guess it's hanging around on St corners scarring the sh!t out of old ladies?
At least, in the Army, they are contained, taught some self discipline and might actually learn a trade that will help them in later life. Sitting outside the local co-op won't do that.
Nutty, I also was conned out off three pension years...w@nk system
What would you rather have those unemployed 16 year olds do? If not the Forces, then I guess it's hanging around on St corners scarring the sh!t out of old ladies?
At least, in the Army, they are contained, taught some self discipline and might actually learn a trade that will help them in later life. Sitting outside the local co-op won't do that.
Nutty, I also was conned out off three pension years...w@nk system
We have a curious attitude to age of majority in the UK- you can get married at 16, join the servces but not serve on operations. You used to be able to buy cigarettes at 16, but now it's 18. There is a campaign to reduce the voting age to 16 (Like in the Scottish referendum), but another to raise the driving agree to 18.
It's also affected by international factors - at one point, you could have nude photos taken at 16, but it was moved to 18 to fit in with America and rationalise child porn laws. So you can get married at/to 16, but if you publish a pic of you wife of that age, you are a sex offender (Several young people have been caught that way.)
I've nown plenty of young people who are mature adults at 16, yet also plenty who are still immature children at 18.
667Thebeast's neighbour says it best though:
It's also affected by international factors - at one point, you could have nude photos taken at 16, but it was moved to 18 to fit in with America and rationalise child porn laws. So you can get married at/to 16, but if you publish a pic of you wife of that age, you are a sex offender (Several young people have been caught that way.)
I've nown plenty of young people who are mature adults at 16, yet also plenty who are still immature children at 18.
667Thebeast's neighbour says it best though:
I do not recognise at all the organisation Mark Bostridge describes. Nor would any other serviceman or woman. He is everything that those who serve would detest: a private school and Oxbridge posh boy who has absolutely no understanding of the lives of ordinary Britons or of the military, but feels his privilege and soft life entitles him to pontificate at length on those subjects. I doubt he has ever met a single underprivileged young person or spoken to anyone in the military.
You will never understand people like me, Mark, nor I people like you. I advise you stick to being an expert on Florence Nightingale.
You will never understand people like me, Mark, nor I people like you. I advise you stick to being an expert on Florence Nightingale.
No harm done
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As someone brought it up, I'm against 16 year olds voting unless they are contributing taxes, then I agree with it, but I think it is fundamentally wrong to have people voting on who will be spending our monies for the next 5 years without contributing in and being part of that system.
It's a volunteer army.
If someone wishes to join then they within reason should be free to do so, keeping out of combat to 18 sounds reasonable but reason and a war don't go hand in hand.
Some will take to army life like Ducks to Water and others like Ducks to a Road that looks like water after a shower of rain.
Let each make their decision rather than nanny state.
If someone wishes to join then they within reason should be free to do so, keeping out of combat to 18 sounds reasonable but reason and a war don't go hand in hand.
Some will take to army life like Ducks to Water and others like Ducks to a Road that looks like water after a shower of rain.
Let each make their decision rather than nanny state.
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The U.K. Armed Forces have an enviable history of taking 'difficult' kids and turning them into useful soldiers. I employ one now who made it to WO1 from the streets of Newcastle and joined at 16 - think of it as two years of reeducation followed by service from 18, and in fact if you restructured it like that I can't see who would complain.
I signed on in the RAF at 15 yrs and 9 months as a Boy Entrant. I was serving in Singapore at 17 years and 7 months. My 19th birthday was spent at Khormaksar. I stayed in until I was 40. I loved every minute of it. It depends on the individual. Some are up to it and some are not.
Aaron.
Aaron.
Slight thread drift. I seem to remember that some years back, someone started a case against the government to try and get our under 21 pension rights counted (probably a ooman rites case). Anyone know what happened (apart from the fact we never got the pension!)?
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Fair Treatment
If you measure the services for fair treatment you run into minefield unless you relate that treatment to what was reasonable at the time
In past years women were denied many service advantages routinely available to men such as married quarters, duty travel for family and spouses to postings abroad and home to duty travel allowance.
Pension allocations were denied to men under 18 and officers under 21 though we paid tax and national insurance. We were denied state pensions attributable to our service because the RAF opted out of SERPS but few of us understood the implication and we were not allowed to make up the years as civilians who had missed payments were allowed to.
All this though it seems unfair but was normal at the time and we learned to live with it and must do so now because there is no recourse to remedy
You get some perspective when you recall that a young officer friend was dismissed the service by Court Martial for failing to attend a mess dinner
The best thing I ever did was to join the RAF in 1964, they treated me well on the whole the medical service was excellent and married quarters a fair deal at least in the early years. They prepared me well, for a second career in civil aviation allowing a free aircraft for my flight test instrument rating and a grant towards my licence costs. The second best was to leave in 1983.
In past years women were denied many service advantages routinely available to men such as married quarters, duty travel for family and spouses to postings abroad and home to duty travel allowance.
Pension allocations were denied to men under 18 and officers under 21 though we paid tax and national insurance. We were denied state pensions attributable to our service because the RAF opted out of SERPS but few of us understood the implication and we were not allowed to make up the years as civilians who had missed payments were allowed to.
All this though it seems unfair but was normal at the time and we learned to live with it and must do so now because there is no recourse to remedy
You get some perspective when you recall that a young officer friend was dismissed the service by Court Martial for failing to attend a mess dinner
The best thing I ever did was to join the RAF in 1964, they treated me well on the whole the medical service was excellent and married quarters a fair deal at least in the early years. They prepared me well, for a second career in civil aviation allowing a free aircraft for my flight test instrument rating and a grant towards my licence costs. The second best was to leave in 1983.
Last edited by Tinribs; 23rd Dec 2015 at 14:12. Reason: spelling
Friend of mine spent a tour defending the RAF at Employment Tribunals hearing claims by WRAF being forced to leave on pregnancy or marriage - must have been dispiriting knowing you were going to lose every time. RIP CC
Dismissed by sentence of CM for failing to attend a mess dinner - I am surprised - or was there "history"?
Dismissed by sentence of CM for failing to attend a mess dinner - I am surprised - or was there "history"?
Last edited by Wander00; 23rd Dec 2015 at 16:42. Reason: Rubbish typist, worse proof reader
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Journalists like this have a single agenda and won't let the facts get in the way of their own perverted message. This twonk seems to believe that every Army recruit becomes a steely-eyed bringer of death, HALOing out of a C-130 to bring death and destruction to all they meet. Apart from the sheer percentage game of just how much the Army comprises "teeth" arm soldiers, every 16 year old will learn a useful skill or a trade (other then raping nuns and drowning orphans). They will learn self-discipline, team-work and most importantly, they soon learn that not everyone is a winner in life. During training the pathologically maladjusted and socially inept will be weeded out, and they will go on to become Guardian journalists.