Tornado F2
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem with parking them wings swept was due to the APU exhaust. Beyond (can't remember the number) degrees, the APU would blow on the wing/flaps. there was a finite time limit (can't remember that either), by which, you had to have the right engine started and the wings swept forwards.
Thanks
Good answers. Could you therefore only get Hydraulic power with an engine running? Or could the APU provide hyds? Was there no EHP?
It's not like me to get all geeky about tech stuff I don't know what's come over me.
BV
It's not like me to get all geeky about tech stuff I don't know what's come over me.
BV
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Midlands
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bob,
No EHP like the mighty pussycat, you could run all services off the APU and SPS system, but as mentioned, with wings swept the APU exhaust would impinge on the back end of the inboard pylon and missile if fitted, along with the flaps.
A handily placed shovel more than makes up for this as a useful efflux deflector though!
Although both No1 and No2 Hyd systems could be operated off the APU, Wing Sweep took a fair bit of Hydraulic grunt, so when moving the wings off the APU, if you didn't take things very slowly and gingerly, it would often cough out in disgust and things would go very quiet!
As also mentioned, with ground crew generally crawling over any aircraft in the hangar, without a full fuel load in the front, the C of G could get a bit tail happy, although with its Cell 'O' the F3 was much less of a problem than the GR when it came to this.
Flipflopman
No EHP like the mighty pussycat, you could run all services off the APU and SPS system, but as mentioned, with wings swept the APU exhaust would impinge on the back end of the inboard pylon and missile if fitted, along with the flaps.
A handily placed shovel more than makes up for this as a useful efflux deflector though!
Although both No1 and No2 Hyd systems could be operated off the APU, Wing Sweep took a fair bit of Hydraulic grunt, so when moving the wings off the APU, if you didn't take things very slowly and gingerly, it would often cough out in disgust and things would go very quiet!
As also mentioned, with ground crew generally crawling over any aircraft in the hangar, without a full fuel load in the front, the C of G could get a bit tail happy, although with its Cell 'O' the F3 was much less of a problem than the GR when it came to this.
Flipflopman
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bob,
The APU would run the gearboxes (Hyds and Gen), but you stood a good chance of blowing it out if you tried to sweep the wings on the APU alone.
Hope that helps.
As for the CoG argument, the GR had a problem, not so with the longer F2/3. We would routinely taxi (and even reverse) with the wings fully swept.
The APU would run the gearboxes (Hyds and Gen), but you stood a good chance of blowing it out if you tried to sweep the wings on the APU alone.
Hope that helps.
As for the CoG argument, the GR had a problem, not so with the longer F2/3. We would routinely taxi (and even reverse) with the wings fully swept.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quite O/T
I was unfortunate to witness a pair of nosewheels leave the ground once.
Trouble was the "cab"
was going backwards at the time attached to a towing arm ensemble....
TF I was only a visitor so was able to bravely run away when all the shouting started [such terrible words from the previously mild mannered sqn WO, we had only just "met" that morning] : never really liked the place after that, even the sight of lumpy jumpers seductively slipping into their issue wellingtons in the airmans mess for the swift wade to their accommodation failed to make the appropriate impression...
..speaking of impressions; this was the age where the MASTER stayed in one location, ie no MASTER trolley and the jet came to it.
We "visitors"were to carry out yet another
ing MASTER as the sqn bods were too busy eating the T -bar out of buns, when one sharp sighted airman says, hey glad, that wasn't yesterday; and neither it was, a perfect impression of the front of a LR defender in the annex wall next to the bowser door!!
Happy days..
Trouble was the "cab"
was going backwards at the time attached to a towing arm ensemble....TF I was only a visitor so was able to bravely run away when all the shouting started [such terrible words from the previously mild mannered sqn WO, we had only just "met" that morning] : never really liked the place after that, even the sight of lumpy jumpers seductively slipping into their issue wellingtons in the airmans mess for the swift wade to their accommodation failed to make the appropriate impression...
..speaking of impressions; this was the age where the MASTER stayed in one location, ie no MASTER trolley and the jet came to it.
We "visitors"were to carry out yet another
ing MASTER as the sqn bods were too busy eating the T -bar out of buns, when one sharp sighted airman says, hey glad, that wasn't yesterday; and neither it was, a perfect impression of the front of a LR defender in the annex wall next to the bowser door!!Happy days..
Plenty of info here:
TORNADO
All the ones I saw in various hangars at Leeming and St Athan for 10 years were definitely concrete - hence the Blue Circle epithet!
TORNADO
The flying ballast for the radar was never (at least from my experience) concrete. It was a thick metal disc that was both blue and circular - hence the Blue Circle epithet.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 91
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
67 Wing
Top tip trying to reverse an F2/3 with the Buckets don't do what i dd and jab the brakes when it all went a bit pete tong - i almost ended up sitting it on its arse - not a bright idea !
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Well, Lincolnshire
Age: 69
Posts: 1,101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Easing slightly off topic........but.
When Leeming was being developed from a JP unit to a Tornado unit, the local 'anti noise' brigade were up in arms.
As a PR gesture, a 'Tornado' was deployed to show the locals what it was about.
The 'Tornado' did a few circuits and bumps, no reheat, it tip toed around the circuit. The locals went home happy. 'Not as bad as all that' etc comments.
The 'Tornado' was an F2, on minimum fuel, no underwing stores, the future OC Ops in the nav seat.
Then came the F3. What a wake up! The noise, the crackle, the nightly ground runs.
At the time, they were a pain in the a***.
The soundproofing, MoD issue, for the local residents houses, were as useful as chocolate fireguards.
Then they were gone. Squadrons scattered and disbanded.
Silence reigns at Leeming (apart from a Tatty Ton Hawk).
Oh, how they are missed. Please bring aviation back to RAF Leeming.
When Leeming was being developed from a JP unit to a Tornado unit, the local 'anti noise' brigade were up in arms.
As a PR gesture, a 'Tornado' was deployed to show the locals what it was about.
The 'Tornado' did a few circuits and bumps, no reheat, it tip toed around the circuit. The locals went home happy. 'Not as bad as all that' etc comments.
The 'Tornado' was an F2, on minimum fuel, no underwing stores, the future OC Ops in the nav seat.
Then came the F3. What a wake up! The noise, the crackle, the nightly ground runs.
At the time, they were a pain in the a***.
The soundproofing, MoD issue, for the local residents houses, were as useful as chocolate fireguards.
Then they were gone. Squadrons scattered and disbanded.
Silence reigns at Leeming (apart from a Tatty Ton Hawk).
Oh, how they are missed. Please bring aviation back to RAF Leeming.
Last edited by taxydual; 11th Dec 2015 at 22:32. Reason: Added 'Please' in the last line.
Gamecock,
Interesting that you saw true concrete ballasts, perhaps they were ground use only?
AFAIR, the reason the wings were kept swept forward was so the flaps and slats could be lowered on shutdown. This allowed proper inspection on the flight servicings.
Interesting that you saw true concrete ballasts, perhaps they were ground use only?
AFAIR, the reason the wings were kept swept forward was so the flaps and slats could be lowered on shutdown. This allowed proper inspection on the flight servicings.
Taxi dual,
The MoD did not issue "soundproofing". After the noise footprint was measured, the MoD was required to pay for various modifications to people's houses (double glazing, etc) carried out by civilian contractors who had bid for the contract on the basis of being able to achieve the required noise attenuation.
The MoD did not issue "soundproofing". After the noise footprint was measured, the MoD was required to pay for various modifications to people's houses (double glazing, etc) carried out by civilian contractors who had bid for the contract on the basis of being able to achieve the required noise attenuation.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Well, Lincolnshire
Age: 69
Posts: 1,101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CM
I know all that (MoD issue/MoD paid for, same thing really). I lived on Roman Road in Leeming Village (whilst wearing a light blue suit). I had the unenviable/enviable (delete as required) role of having a foot in both camps.
A local as well as a serviceman.
I bet you 'aided' the noise attenuation (not) on your visits the the premier F3 unit.
Rgds
I know all that (MoD issue/MoD paid for, same thing really). I lived on Roman Road in Leeming Village (whilst wearing a light blue suit). I had the unenviable/enviable (delete as required) role of having a foot in both camps.
A local as well as a serviceman.
I bet you 'aided' the noise attenuation (not) on your visits the the premier F3 unit.
Rgds
More than aided. After Leeming was closed for a few years, we were invited to start flying in there ahead of reopening to get the locals used a little noise again. I was instructing at Chiv at the time so was very happy to take a couple of jets and some studes up there for a Night stop in Northallerton or Bedale. All for a little noise.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Darlington
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regarding noise at Leeming I recall a half hour programme by Tyne Tees television all about Tornado noise featuring one particularly gobby woman from Scruton who was up in arms about the new arrivals.
The whole thing made me write a letter of complaint to TTTV (copy to John Rooume, station commander) as the editing gave the impression the noise was constant. Having been brought up in Leeming Bar I also argued that it was actually worse with 3 FTS as that was constant (surprising the noise a JP can make on a frosty November night!)
The whole thing made me write a letter of complaint to TTTV (copy to John Rooume, station commander) as the editing gave the impression the noise was constant. Having been brought up in Leeming Bar I also argued that it was actually worse with 3 FTS as that was constant (surprising the noise a JP can make on a frosty November night!)
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Amazing thing the web.
A thread on a LR Discovery site concerning the F35, which migrates into reminiscences on building the Tornado GR1/4 and F2/3.
e.g. I think the worst job on all marks of Tornado was changing the left or right fuel cock main shut off valve in zone 25 with the gearbox and IDG installed, you got soaked in fuel that ran down your arms and started to burn you, then smelt terrible when you got home..
A thread on a LR Discovery site concerning the F35, which migrates into reminiscences on building the Tornado GR1/4 and F2/3.
e.g. I think the worst job on all marks of Tornado was changing the left or right fuel cock main shut off valve in zone 25 with the gearbox and IDG installed, you got soaked in fuel that ran down your arms and started to burn you, then smelt terrible when you got home..