Breaking news on Sky.....
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Unfortunately for those of us who like to view this as a straight good vs bad guys, those closer to the action have their own priorities. In the case of the Turks, fighting IS is some way down the list.
Deleted - incorrect info.
From the footage being circulated it looked like one of the aircrew had a very heavy landing.
Also there are unconfirmed reports circulating of one of the Russian CSAR helos being downed by local rebels.
Also there are unconfirmed reports circulating of one of the Russian CSAR helos being downed by local rebels.
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Oh, dear, what a mess.
I'm assuming from those tracks shown by Wokkafans that the Russian is the one with the east/west pattern in red. Quite a modest airspace violation, but then what do I know about Turkish sensitivity!
I'm assuming from those tracks shown by Wokkafans that the Russian is the one with the east/west pattern in red. Quite a modest airspace violation, but then what do I know about Turkish sensitivity!
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Modest? What's that got to do with it? The Russians were repeatedly warned over the last few weeks, this is a very tense situation in a very tense part of the world. If you encroach another nations airspace, ignore warnings and protestations for
Weeks then what do you expect?
Putin should remember the poor souls who died aboard the CIVILIAN airliner shot down in Ukraine by his forces or forces supported by his regime not so long ago before he takes any moral stance and likely retaliation!
Weeks then what do you expect?
Putin should remember the poor souls who died aboard the CIVILIAN airliner shot down in Ukraine by his forces or forces supported by his regime not so long ago before he takes any moral stance and likely retaliation!
Unverified reports of a Russian helo involved in SAR ops being destroyed by a TOW whilst on the ground. Footage on YT.
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The BBC is now showing what it says is another picture from AFP of the aircraft being downed:
Turkey 'shoots down Russian Su-24 jet at Syria border' - BBC News
However, to me that looks like an Su-27 or derivative, not an Su-24 (which the other pictures clearly do show).
Either two planes are down or, more likely, somebody is getting confused, spoofed or carried away.
EDIT: And now withdrawn by AFP, accepting it's an old picture.
Turkey 'shoots down Russian Su-24 jet at Syria border' - BBC News
However, to me that looks like an Su-27 or derivative, not an Su-24 (which the other pictures clearly do show).
Either two planes are down or, more likely, somebody is getting confused, spoofed or carried away.
EDIT: And now withdrawn by AFP, accepting it's an old picture.
Last edited by Satellite_Driver; 24th Nov 2015 at 13:40. Reason: Correction by linked site.
A rescue helicopter that landed was then blown up by a TOW missle.
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SD ...
Even the Telegraph posted that incorrect pic.
SU-27 dispensing flares ... Not a SU-24 ...
Image Credit : As Shown
Irrespective of Country or Politics two Mil Aircrew were hurt ... One reportly loosing his life ... A sad day.
Even the Telegraph posted that incorrect pic.
SU-27 dispensing flares ... Not a SU-24 ...
Image Credit : As Shown
Irrespective of Country or Politics two Mil Aircrew were hurt ... One reportly loosing his life ... A sad day.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 24th Nov 2015 at 15:11.
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There is video of the pilots being machine gunned while under their parachutes. BBC confirms claims by Turkmen that 'Our comrades opened fire into the air and they died in the air."
Sick b******s. Turkey now has the blood of Russian pilots on its hands. They are going to pay dearly for that. I sincerely hope that NATO (ie the USA) distances itself very quickly from this and doesn't try to justify it in the least.
Sick b******s. Turkey now has the blood of Russian pilots on its hands. They are going to pay dearly for that. I sincerely hope that NATO (ie the USA) distances itself very quickly from this and doesn't try to justify it in the least.
dead_pan wrote
Apparently the helo took ground fire and was abandoned.
Footage on YT looks suspect - would a helo really sit on the ground in such an exposed position in hostile territory with its engines apparently off?
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Russia says the SU 24 was 6,000m amsl, 1,000m lateral distance from the border.
Being so confident of your position as to get that close to the border in the Su 24 is an awfully big (crazy?) gamble that the F16s are equally confident of their position (and yours) in deciding shoot/no shoot.
Even manoeuvring at only 350kts, 1000m is c 5 secs difference between being dead-right and dead-wrong about which side of the border you're on.
But either way, its close enough to end up being dead.
Being so confident of your position as to get that close to the border in the Su 24 is an awfully big (crazy?) gamble that the F16s are equally confident of their position (and yours) in deciding shoot/no shoot.
Even manoeuvring at only 350kts, 1000m is c 5 secs difference between being dead-right and dead-wrong about which side of the border you're on.
But either way, its close enough to end up being dead.
SHOOTDOWN
I give up on poor military comment by the press. Turkey and Russia will argue the toss over where the aircraft was when it was hit, and we may never know the truth The press are hopeless when commenting on these issues and never consider simple facts like the range of air-to-air missiles today and the distance a 550 knot target may travel after being shot. 1km is absolutely nothing in this context and is no proof of where the aircraft actually was when it was hit.
FDL,
Sorry our posts crossed. At the height of the Cold War we stayed 10NM away from the border with East Germany to avoid any such a situation. Granted we did not have GPS then, but we also had GCI. Russia seems to be cavalier or just pushing its luck. M2N
Sorry our posts crossed. At the height of the Cold War we stayed 10NM away from the border with East Germany to avoid any such a situation. Granted we did not have GPS then, but we also had GCI. Russia seems to be cavalier or just pushing its luck. M2N
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Where were the videos shot from, and by whom? There is one circulating on TV which is an aerial shot of a parachute descending into trees. Russian helicopter footage? This close to the border, a lot could be gained by knowing these facts.