What's the point of University Air Squadrons?
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What's the point of University Air Squadrons?
My son recently applied to join his UAS (I won't say which one) and was told at the Freshers Fair, he was unlikely to get in as his degree was a difficult one which would 'restrict his ability to fully commit to the UAS programme' (he's studying Aeronautical Engineering). Under normal circumstances I'd assume this was because my son is a spanner (he can be) and was being let down gently. However, I'm now aware of a mate of his who I'd say was a shoe in for the RAF (3xA* A Levels, D of E Gold, Lord Lieutenants Cadet, representative sports etc etc) who was rejected for the same reason. So, is the UAS just an outdated social club with a bit of flying thrown in or does it actually serve a need in helping the RAF recruit the sort of talent it needs.
I think your analysis of the situation is 180 degrees out. They're certainly not 'outdated social clubs' any more, which is part of the problem. After all, if they were social clubs with flying attached, there would be no worries about 'restricting his ability to fully commit to the UAS programme', because even the most arduous degree courses leave some time for evening social activities. At this point I should note that the original function of UAS was NOT to recruit anyone, but to leave a good impression of the RAF among the future great-and-good (a superb example of the foresight with which Trenchard established his fledgling force).
Because UASs are now so narrowly focussed on their modern-day task of 'helping the RAF recruit the sort of talent it needs', they have a massively reduced emphasis on flying (which, back in the day, was something that students could schedule around their study commitments) and a greatly increased emphasis on things like leadership development and adventurous training (which, being group activities planned in advance, do not offer the same kind of scheduling flexibility).
I am afraid that my analysis does not answer your concern as to precisely why apparently-suitable individuals are knocked back. But I can guarantee you that it is not down to some antediluvian 'social club with flying' outlook. Probably the opposite.
Because UASs are now so narrowly focussed on their modern-day task of 'helping the RAF recruit the sort of talent it needs', they have a massively reduced emphasis on flying (which, back in the day, was something that students could schedule around their study commitments) and a greatly increased emphasis on things like leadership development and adventurous training (which, being group activities planned in advance, do not offer the same kind of scheduling flexibility).
I am afraid that my analysis does not answer your concern as to precisely why apparently-suitable individuals are knocked back. But I can guarantee you that it is not down to some antediluvian 'social club with flying' outlook. Probably the opposite.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
There are Naval equivalents and a nephew was focused on a career as an engineer. He went to Welbeck and then RN sponsorship at Newcastle. Now in his 2nd year the Navy owns him body and soul with adventure training in holidays and attachments he is busy.
handleturning, certainly if your lad is reading something like Aero Eng at Impossible College, London, he'd find it difficult to fit in long treks to London (Wittering) aerodrome for his handful of flying hours - or even to attend training nights (if the RAF can still afford them) at the relocated THQ which is now at Northolt, ever since the MoD bean counters flogged off the Brompton Road property to some rich Russian....
Perhaps he should consider the OTC or, if the university has one, an URNU, both of which are rather more experienced at 'a greatly increased emphasis on things like leadership development and adventurous training' and probably offer far more varied opportunities than the kraft durch freude scope of the University Air Cadets?
Anyway, whichever plank advised your son not to bother deserves a kick in the slats. If your son has the commitment and drive to mix serious degree work with what now passes for UAS time, then good luck to him!
Perhaps he should consider the OTC or, if the university has one, an URNU, both of which are rather more experienced at 'a greatly increased emphasis on things like leadership development and adventurous training' and probably offer far more varied opportunities than the kraft durch freude scope of the University Air Cadets?
Anyway, whichever plank advised your son not to bother deserves a kick in the slats. If your son has the commitment and drive to mix serious degree work with what now passes for UAS time, then good luck to him!
Following on from BEagle's wise words, I would add that if your son is interested in a RAF career, he should not let this apparent knock-back put him off (too much, anyway). I have had colleagues who were members of the OTC but joined the RAF on graduation. They excelled at IOT, as you might expect.
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Fortunately he has that endless enthusiasm that we all used to have, so this hasn't impacted his view on the RAF. He's at Bristol BEAGLE, which isn't quite such a trek (Colerne).
My first thought on reading the OP was " I wonder who told him that". I would be very surprised if the official UAS/RAF view was that they didn't want people doing engineering degrees.
Well if it helps, I read aeronautical engineering, joined the UAS and thoroughly enjoyed it - but then ended up joining the army after graduation.
A friend of mine on my degree course was absolutely gutted to be rejected by the UAS, so joined the TA while an undergraduate. On graduation, he joined the RAF, went to Harrier on 1 Squadron, then ETPS.
I think my friend got the better deal!
A friend of mine on my degree course was absolutely gutted to be rejected by the UAS, so joined the TA while an undergraduate. On graduation, he joined the RAF, went to Harrier on 1 Squadron, then ETPS.
I think my friend got the better deal!
Thread Starter
I should have added that the advice went on to say that 'we find people doing subjects such as History and Geography can offer more commitment to the UAS than Engineering'. It's a tricky one, analytical subjects certainly have their place, but with a known shortage of engineers I would have thought the RAF would be doing all they can to encourage them. Anyway, enough of my whining, thanks guys all appreciated. Can't believe I'm on PPRUNE extolling the virtues of engineering!
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During my interview for the UAS I was told that I was competing against people who had 'Back packed across Africa etc'.
Having never had the opportunity to travel to, or across, such destinations, I felt pretty certain I wasn't going to be successful. I wasn't selected, unfortunately. However it's not stopped me from applying to the real thing.
I'm sure anyone who is selected for the UAS will have a great time and there is no stopping someone re-applying in their 2nd (maybe 3rd) year at University.
I still feel a bit gutted to this day I wasn't selected.
Sob.
Having never had the opportunity to travel to, or across, such destinations, I felt pretty certain I wasn't going to be successful. I wasn't selected, unfortunately. However it's not stopped me from applying to the real thing.
I'm sure anyone who is selected for the UAS will have a great time and there is no stopping someone re-applying in their 2nd (maybe 3rd) year at University.
I still feel a bit gutted to this day I wasn't selected.
Sob.
we find people doing subjects such as History or Geography can offer more commitment to the UAS than Engineering
Given the importance in the longer term of getting a decent degree vice running around muddy fields doing 'leadership', I'd say your son had a lucky escape, especially as he will now more than likely be paying for his degree for years to come. University is a place for learning and self discovery, of which the UAS can play a part, but it shouldn't be everything, and whomever interviewed your son needs to wake up to that fact.
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handleturning, I also support BEagle's point of view that whoever advised your son not to apply deserves a kick in the pants. Keep in mind that UAS representatives at Freshers' Fairs are often UAS students who may be biased and not qualified staff. I would put a call into the CO or the Adjutant to escalate his candidacy so that he might at least get to the interview stage.
Sadly, I also agree with the other commentators that the UASs are now a shadow of their former selves at least in terms of flying, but then again I'm biased! ULAS 1984-86 were great times (and, yes, I was studying engineering at Impossible College). In my day it was more like grab as much flying as you can with a (great) social life thrown in. Almost every Wednesday and week-end at RAF Abingdon with a two week Summer camp (St Mawgan and Leeming) and a one week Easter camp each year, plus two week attachments to operational squadrons at Wittering and Chivenor. 105 hours flying in 30 months and a fantastic shop window on life in the RAF of the day.
joining ULAS was the perfect antidote to the stress and pressures of studying an engineering degree in a hot-house university environment and did me the world of good. I wish your son every success in his future endeavours and with whatever career path he chooses.
ABL262
Sadly, I also agree with the other commentators that the UASs are now a shadow of their former selves at least in terms of flying, but then again I'm biased! ULAS 1984-86 were great times (and, yes, I was studying engineering at Impossible College). In my day it was more like grab as much flying as you can with a (great) social life thrown in. Almost every Wednesday and week-end at RAF Abingdon with a two week Summer camp (St Mawgan and Leeming) and a one week Easter camp each year, plus two week attachments to operational squadrons at Wittering and Chivenor. 105 hours flying in 30 months and a fantastic shop window on life in the RAF of the day.
joining ULAS was the perfect antidote to the stress and pressures of studying an engineering degree in a hot-house university environment and did me the world of good. I wish your son every success in his future endeavours and with whatever career path he chooses.
ABL262
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I support the comments about the OTC that I've read here. When I went to Uni I had gone with the firm intention of joining the RAF (I had already been given an IOT after A levels but declined it). Like the OP's son, at the Freshers Fair, I approached the UAS as the natural place to go but was struck by their very narrow set of interests. I then had a chat with the guys on the OTC stall and the whole deal was far more attractive. So I spent 3 years having a whale of a time in the 'Armoured Corps Wing', hoofing around the city and county in Foxes and Ferret scout cars and generally having a great time (and getting paid!). Throughout that time I wore my RAF stablebelt (mainly to annoy the Col) and joined the RAF immediately after graduation from Uni. I would echo comments that the OTC syllabus helped me enormously at IOT.
Back in my day the point was cheap beer, camaraderie, living like a lord in the officers mess, causing mayhem on the airfield after dark, mentioning it to the odd young lady and I believe there was some flying involved.
At a reunion a few years ago I spoke to a current member who had been in for 2 years and had 30mins flying time! As my old CFI said, 'back then we were teaching you to RAF flying training standards'. These days it is a much more rounded place I believe.
At a reunion a few years ago I spoke to a current member who had been in for 2 years and had 30mins flying time! As my old CFI said, 'back then we were teaching you to RAF flying training standards'. These days it is a much more rounded place I believe.
My son recently applied to join his UAS (I won't say which one) and was told at the Freshers Fair, he was unlikely to get in as his degree was a difficult one which would 'restrict his ability to fully commit to the UAS programme' (he's studying Aeronautical Engineering). Under normal circumstances I'd assume this was because my son is a spanner (he can be) and was being let down gently. However, I'm now aware of a mate of his who I'd say was a shoe in for the RAF (3xA* A Levels, D of E Gold, Lord Lieutenants Cadet, representative sports etc etc) who was rejected for the same reason. So, is the UAS just an outdated social club with a bit of flying thrown in or does it actually serve a need in helping the RAF recruit the sort of talent it needs.
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Rolling 20.
That's how I remember my time in the UAS (Southampton).
It was the best social club going - we even had "grimmy" parties but, I suppose, they would be frowned upon nowadays.
Many of the chaps, no chappesses then, ended up with careers in aviation - not neccessarily the RAF.
How life has moved on, I doubt that, at age 16, you are allowed to keep your Lee Enfield .303 at home if you are in the school CCF nowadays.
Is there a CCF anymore?
That's how I remember my time in the UAS (Southampton).
It was the best social club going - we even had "grimmy" parties but, I suppose, they would be frowned upon nowadays.
Many of the chaps, no chappesses then, ended up with careers in aviation - not neccessarily the RAF.
How life has moved on, I doubt that, at age 16, you are allowed to keep your Lee Enfield .303 at home if you are in the school CCF nowadays.
Is there a CCF anymore?
finncapt, ah yes all boys and no girls! Several of my contemporaries did join and a couple unfortunately lost their lives subsequently.
Others however are plying the skies still as senior captains with major airlines and one of our number reached Air rank!
Others however are plying the skies still as senior captains with major airlines and one of our number reached Air rank!