Really?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Out of the office...
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Really?
PM to get own plane for official trips - BBC News
I wonder how this will work out in amongst all the other cr*p the undermanned-and-getting-worse fleet are doing...
I wonder how this will work out in amongst all the other cr*p the undermanned-and-getting-worse fleet are doing...
It's about time that the UK had its own 'diplomatic' aircraft for ministerial use.
I wonder whether it will be flown by RAF crews or by the PFI mercenaries?
I wonder whether it will be flown by RAF crews or by the PFI mercenaries?
From poking around online it looks like the UK is alone among the G20 by not having a dedicated long(?)-range VIP transport for Head of State and associated nobs.
That should be embarrassing....you already took their "yacht" and, I believe, train, for gawds sake!
Of course you're all ruled by the red tops and "Mr Angry from Purley" so am grabbing popcorn for the inevitable beating of the breast. I guess if the saintly Lady Di still walked among us the same folks would happily offer up a taxpayer funded pink Concorde for her...liaisons.
Shame. Used to be a nice country.
That should be embarrassing....you already took their "yacht" and, I believe, train, for gawds sake!
Of course you're all ruled by the red tops and "Mr Angry from Purley" so am grabbing popcorn for the inevitable beating of the breast. I guess if the saintly Lady Di still walked among us the same folks would happily offer up a taxpayer funded pink Concorde for her...liaisons.
Shame. Used to be a nice country.
I am at a loss to understand why refitting an aircraft should cost £10M.
One might allow that there would be a VVIP fit for a modest number of senior persons but then the rest would be accommodated at most in a 'Business Class' environment. Since this last fit is readily available for commercial customers why the massive costs.
One might accept that there would be a requirement for added comms and security equipment but it seems to be over-egging things a tad!
Furthermore, I can see the jet being rapidly put back to a tanker/pax aircraft - oh yeh. The next thing of course is there would need to be a spare!
Old Duffer
One might allow that there would be a VVIP fit for a modest number of senior persons but then the rest would be accommodated at most in a 'Business Class' environment. Since this last fit is readily available for commercial customers why the massive costs.
One might accept that there would be a requirement for added comms and security equipment but it seems to be over-egging things a tad!
Furthermore, I can see the jet being rapidly put back to a tanker/pax aircraft - oh yeh. The next thing of course is there would need to be a spare!
Old Duffer
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 43
Posts: 746
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
South africa is currently tendering for a jet for 32 seats plus showers and a comference room.
We have a global diplomatic network and interests and uk ministers regularly go overseas. The issue isnt whether to travel or not, the issue is how to travel as cheaply as possible to the taxpayer. Remember we used to do exactly this on the vc10 fleet.
I have no problem with the UK having an official jet as its a lot less embarrassing than seeing the grown ups pull in un a random sleazy jet. Plus it saves money to boot. Good enough for me.
£10m is a pittance these days in govt spending.
We have a global diplomatic network and interests and uk ministers regularly go overseas. The issue isnt whether to travel or not, the issue is how to travel as cheaply as possible to the taxpayer. Remember we used to do exactly this on the vc10 fleet.
I have no problem with the UK having an official jet as its a lot less embarrassing than seeing the grown ups pull in un a random sleazy jet. Plus it saves money to boot. Good enough for me.
£10m is a pittance these days in govt spending.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Instead, the MoD has agreed to lease 14 Voyager refuellers at a cost of £750m each over 27 years up to 2035 - a total cost of £10bn.
They are supposed to be on standby for use in war, but equally the cost was to be defrayed by using them in the civil charter market - both now impossible to imagine. It just means the cost is being hidden/absorbed in the MOD budget (as are just about everything the government can disguise as having a "security" connotation).
Frankly, they could wetdamp/dry lease an A330 for far, far less, the fuel economics making them unattractive in the airline industry, but irrelevant for the few trips flown by a VIP jet - but then the cost would be public and upfront
Last edited by ORAC; 19th Nov 2015 at 07:48.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 1,002
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There has always been planned QEC VIP kit for the Voyager.
Far less cost then chartering airline BA/VS 747/777 as has been used for royal flights in the past. Gov. have been chartering private 767s at great cost recently for ministerial trips.
The civvy AirTanker cabin crew could easily attend an airline First Class cabin service course (VS have A330) The cabin service required for Royal/Ministerial flights a bit beyond the RAF Voyager cabin crew training for trooping flights.
Far less cost then chartering airline BA/VS 747/777 as has been used for royal flights in the past. Gov. have been chartering private 767s at great cost recently for ministerial trips.
The civvy AirTanker cabin crew could easily attend an airline First Class cabin service course (VS have A330) The cabin service required for Royal/Ministerial flights a bit beyond the RAF Voyager cabin crew training for trooping flights.
Once up a distant memory, No 216 Sqn provided such services with their 5 Comet 4s. Of course, it was a bigger Air Force and many friendly Commonwealth countries [and others] needed to be visited regularly.
It would be nice if a link to those past glories could be maintained. Is ZZ216 available from the 'Cherished Numberplate" people?
It would be nice if a link to those past glories could be maintained. Is ZZ216 available from the 'Cherished Numberplate" people?
Originally Posted by ORAC
p
They are supposed to be on standby for use in war, but equally the cost was to be defrayed by using them in the civil charter market - both now impossible to imagine.
They are supposed to be on standby for use in war, but equally the cost was to be defrayed by using them in the civil charter market - both now impossible to imagine.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Dave, I was referring to the jet to be given the VIP fit for the Dave. I doubt very much it will be a quick role change fit with the aircraft being used for Cameron one day and tourists with TC the next.
Hopefully they'll get best value for money by combining missions. When Dave wants to go to Paris for a summit, he shouldn't mind going via Cyprus to do a Typhoon trail. Oh, and then there's the check in at Brize three days before departure and a couple of nights in Gateway House. He must also be well placed to be the senior passenger to handle all the pax complaints.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 1,002
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ORAC
BA had a VIP kit which could be fitted overnight to the front end of the aeroplane.
The Voyager though would probably not have the galley fit for multiple F/Class type meal service whereas the standard BA VC10/747 did.
as standard.
BA had a VIP kit which could be fitted overnight to the front end of the aeroplane.
The Voyager though would probably not have the galley fit for multiple F/Class type meal service whereas the standard BA VC10/747 did.
as standard.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bishops Stortford, UK
Age: 81
Posts: 449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Frankly, once Voyager was up and going, it was surely just a matter of time before some such announcement would be forthcoming. For Cessnapete, I can't see why dealing with Royal and Ministerial flights should be beyond today's cabin crew. In days of yore, 10 Squadron and 216 Squadron crews with the requisite categories mixed VIP and other MOD tasking work as a matter of course. The role fit and the rapidity (or otherwise) with which it might be changed will be an interesting issue to follow. Role changes were an everyday part of the VC10 years, but I imagine that the ability to change with Voyager will be very much subject to Contract amendment.
Oh - and if it's to be 10/101 Sqn crews flying VVIP tasks, rather than AirTanker crews, might they do so in blue/KD?
Oh - and if it's to be 10/101 Sqn crews flying VVIP tasks, rather than AirTanker crews, might they do so in blue/KD?
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 7,321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's always amazing.
When the former Royal/VIP fleet was reduced/eliminated, going to commercial charter as required, it was apparently because it was cheaper.
Now we are moving back from VIP charter to a dedicated RAF aircraft, it is apparently because it is cheaper ...
When the former Royal/VIP fleet was reduced/eliminated, going to commercial charter as required, it was apparently because it was cheaper.
Now we are moving back from VIP charter to a dedicated RAF aircraft, it is apparently because it is cheaper ...
