No More Waddington Air Show

[FAStoat]

Years ago when Displaying at Leeming, they tried to put us up in the Sprogs Studes Mess Block,so we declined and upped anchor and sailed at best speed to Mike Cairns's Hospitality in the Darlington Flying Club,where great ribaldry was had by all.One wag poured fertilliser in a two word phrase or saying on the grass in front of their Officers Mess,that would have shown up from the windows the following year!!Good old Mike!!!!

[Pontius Navigator]

One year we were forward based at Benson for Farnborough. On the Friday we had our summer ball at Waddo.

The skipper demanded Comms Sqn provide transport there and back. Initially this was refused. He pointed out that we had our own aircraft and would fly back anyway but we would not display at Farnborough on Saturday as we could not afford the hours.

We had two Bassets on Friday and a Pembroke back on Saturday.

[Finningley Boy]

Just going over the Security implications at Waddington once again, is this only a sudden realization and not just an opportunity afforded by the runway re-work to move toward a new less visible, low key RAF? Through the last four decades and more, air bases with all kinds of sensitivity opened their gates to the general public, including ones with Nuclear weapons storage? Islamic terrorism has been a constant threat for years. Before that, the IRA were perhaps a more serious physical threat to security.

I can understand the concerns about the sensitive nature over Reaper operations, but wouldn't expect the location of the control room to be sign posted on base? Indeed, I'd expect it to be a mystery wrapped in a puzzle inside an enigma... or what it was that Churchill said about the USSR.

FB

[Tiger_mate]

GAI2022 is the MoD policy on events and airshows. It was due renewal in Oct 2011 and earlier this year when last I looked, it still had not been renewed. The reason was because there was no appetite by the AFBSC to participate in airshows which are perceived as a financial burden even though Cosford and Waddington operated in profit and Leuchars benefited from a generous contribution from the Scottish Office.

The writing was on the wall for airshows, and the closure of Leuchars played perfectly into their hands. There was no chance of an RAF sponsored air show taking over from Leuchars. Mixed signals were spouted after Waddngton had been suspended. For a while it appeared that alternatives had been considered and dismissed including Scampton. The terminal outlook was muddied by comments that an alternative was still under review. I go back to the 2011 GAI which after four years remained 'under review'.

The RAF are in partnership with RIAT to celebrate the RAF Centenary. RAFAT must be under threat as the Hawk T1 reaches end of life, and my guess is that 2018 will be the final year. The future for other events and teams is anyones guess. Personnel and opinions go through cycles of change but for sure the last few years have seen an appetite to erase air show commitment. MAA/CAA regulations may yet see some events untenable. The Risks associated with Aviation Normal Operating Hazards are no longer acceptable. Offshore displays which are perceived as the least dangerous have many associated hazards, notably birdstrikes risk and pleasure craft venturing into the safety area. The precedent was set when a Red Arrow hit a yacht mast.

[Wander00]

How long before someone decides that going to war is far to dangerous and we just give in - Corbyn or not.

[Finningley Boy]

Tiger Mate,

I certainly get the impression that airshows are largely out of favour at the moment and I feel it may be more of a response to years of defence cuts harvesting RAF assets. When you refer to the Yacht mast, are you referring to the one that was hit during a display over Brighton all the way back in 1980?

I do recall that one.

FB

[Fortissimo]

FB,

You may find that 'security' includes the security of assets that are air side of the crowd line, ie on the other side of the airfield. They are at more risk should anyone drop an aircraft during a display and the Shoreham experience may have put that into sharper focus for people.

[Lima Juliet]

Re: over sea displays. Yacht masts. Wasn't it Dartmouth? Anyway, how low do you have to fly to hit a yacht mast? Is that height reallly necessary? For me, that statement raises more questions than answers.

Yes, the birds might be a risk but raise the display a little and have a BCU plan and that should help mitigate that risk. However, the biggest risk is when there is a poor horizon, making 'the goldfish bowl' effect. However, this can also be managed with raising display heights.

I think the appettite for Air Shows, especially the smaller ones on MoD sites, was down to imsurance. The MoD don't tend to insure and so a big accident like the tragedy at Shoreham will cost the MoD a lot of money and a big loss of reputation - so in balance someone has probably decided it isn't worth it (rightly or wrongly).

LJ

[Pontius Navigator]

Not sure about insurance. We certainly demanded civilian participants were insured. Pleuvius was a difficult one, sometimes we took a risk.

Operational risk, ie war, was also a risk that Waddington met with its T&Cs and a no refund policy. In the event they did refund.

I wonder who picked up the bill for foreign military crashes?

[Tiger_mate]

RAF Events, JHC and RNHF/RN all charge a display fee and a separate insurance charge.

The RAF events get NO discount for RAF displays.

The Army and Navy get 50% discount for RAF displays!

The insurance costs are attached to individual display aircraft/team. The RAF 'public' events are insured through a civilian broker at air show expense. This has to include lastminute.com cancellation costs, so you can imagine what sort of premiums are involved.

Insurance for every aircraft is on the FDD (Flying Display Director) Check-list of mandatory ticks in the box; along with DA, License, Medical etc.

[Simplythebeast]

can see Church Fenton doing well out of this situation if traffic management can be sorted, perhaps creating park and ride facilities and making use of a shuttle service to Church Fenton station/ compined with rail shuttle to Leeds/York.
Lots of potential.

[Finningley Boy]

You may find that 'security' includes the security of assets that are air side of the crowd line, ie on the other side of the airfield. They are at more risk should anyone drop an aircraft during a display and the Shoreham experience may have put that into sharper focus for people.

Fostissimo,

I was about to say of course, but why has it taken to now to become concerned about this? Its been an ever present problem from the start of airshows going back to 1920 and the Hendon Air Pageant. However, I think Leon's answered the question regarding what appears to be an insurance problem.. That's what kills off every pursuit with the slightest hint of danger in the end.

FB

[Pontius Navigator]

I know OC Ops at Cottesmore had kittens when the Belgian Starfighter did touch and go rolls down the runway. He was more concerned with the possibility of runway Black than the risk to three nuclear armed aircraft on QRA.

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Finningley Boy

Fostissimo,

I was about to say of course, but why has it taken to now to become concerned about this? Its been an ever present problem from the start of airshows going back to 1920 and the Hendon Air Pageant. However, I think Leon's answered the question regarding what appears to be an insurance problem.. That's what kills off every pursuit with the slightest hint of danger in the end.

FB

And in answer to your question, a catastrophic crash at Hendon would have destroyed a tiny proportion of the RAF and anyway, new aircraft would be introduced tomorrow anyway.

Today a similar crash could knock out the entire AEW force, or Sentinel, or both, with replacements due a generation away.

Eggs, baskets, one-off, doors, bolted, stables etc.

[Ivan Rogov]

Perhaps there is an opportunity for a large UK commercial/civilian run airshow at a suitably located (for punters and display safety) ex Mil airfield. With a few serious investors and sponsors it might turn a decent profit (i.e: Incentive to do it and make it successful). I assume the Mil ones are restricted in their ability to make money for many reasons.

Perhaps they could arrange more than one per year (North and South, etc.), now if only there were a group of people that used to do this every year who are now probably twiddling their thumbs?

[Pontius Navigator]

RIAT would cover the South. Where would you go North?

Infrastructure is crucial as is catchment. However would there be any profit in a blue sky display, at least until the idea catches on and the locals take to the idea of a day out.

[Fluffy Bunny]

Church Fenton did alright. However, that may be due to something triangular doing it's last public business...

[Tiger_mate]

For any new event, the need for a robust and efficient traffic management plan is essential. From my experience; I would say that any donor airfield needs to be no more than 5 miles from the major trunk roads, as in A Class duel carriageway or motorway. Ideally with a railhead nearby within walking distance. The access roads to the airfield need to be numerous to accomodate through traffic (people who arrive in taxis or dropped off by family) and also VIP/Blue light routing.

Leuchars operated a park & ride, and I cannot say how efficient it was.

Add to this a decent length runway and lots of hardstanding, and the shoping list starts to become claustrophobic. Many FJ require RHAG and/or Barrier to operate from and if not available; enlisting a second operating airfield becomes very expensive.

There are not many airfields in the north of england which tick all the boxes. Wittering could, but like Cottesmore, is not really far enough north to be RIAT(North). There will be no desire from any council to improve highways and byways for a once a year airshow. (Thinking of Leemng) Then when you go too far north, the footfall becomes insignificant. It is a difficult business case to satisfy and an easy one to let drop in 2017.

[iansmith]

From a traffic point of view Church Fenton was a total disaster. Had it not been for an enterprising person in a 4x4 trialing an alternate route from the back of the car park I would have been stuck there for ~3 hours. Many were turned away as the carpark was full. I paid for my ticket but the mistake was that someone made the decision to allow payment on the gate, which caused the hordes to descend. There were queues in excess of an hour for toilets, similar for the food which also ran out. The organisers didn't make all the money they should have either as people from the car park were being routed inside the boundary hedge, straight onto the airfield. My ticket was never checked and huge numbers got in for free (most of those around me did).
However, I will go again if they stick to advanced tickets only as most other displays now do.

I can understand the decision as I suspect that they were low in numbers in the preceding week and maybe they were advised to accommodate people rather than have free-loaders clogging up the roads and hedgerows.

So, next time:

1. Advanced tickets only
2. Probably do it over 2 days
3. Establish good park and rides
4. Make well publicised use of the nearby railway (I had intended to use it but could not find out any details of extra trains, stops etc.)
5. Clearway for the buses and VIP ticket holders

It has the potential to be a good venue (again)

[Finningley Boy]

And in answer to your question, a catastrophic crash at Hendon would have destroyed a tiny proportion of the RAF and anyway, new aircraft would be introduced tomorrow anyway.

Today a similar crash could knock out the entire AEW force, or Sentinel, or both, with replacements due a generation away.

Eggs, baskets, one-off, doors, bolted, stables etc.

Ah yes of course, but the reference to Hendon was to highlight just how long the RAF have been holding airshows, E3Ds have been parked on dispersal at Waddington at every show since 1995 and they've now realised the danger? Before that, Vulcans and a Nuclear Bomb dump just the other side of the road. By the way, the RAF IN 1920 had most of its assets based overseas and had been whittled down from about 180 squadrons at the end of the Great War to about 27 in 1920. I haven't got the exact figures to hand but I always take an interest in how history often tells a different story when examined in detail compared with the wider understanding.

I'm sure I've mentioned this somewhere here before, in 1965 on Battle of Britain at home day, 45 Lightnings took part in the flying alone, including; six formation display teams, five solo aerobatics pilots and a diamond nine flypast formation. This covered 12 locations, however, the entire lot were drawn from just five squadrons and the OCU. There was one more squadron unaffected, 56, which had just returned from an overseas deployment and offered a 4-ship to a station nearby which was holding a display. The only one which didn't already have a formation display by Lightnings was St Mawgan, which would require an overnight deployment and they needed to be at Wattisham for the Sunday flypast, requiring 10 aircraft, the next morning then preparation for an ADEX in Malta, therefore they declined.

Its a different mindset today, and not just where airshows are concerned.

FB

PS: 19 and 92 were on the point of deploying permanently to Germany but still took part.