AFTER TIFFIE
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Surely rather than spending billions of paying benefits to the engineering workers to sit on their backsides as the jobs have been ripped from under them and other people who could train, why not invest in not only the aviation industry but shipbuilding and other defence companies to restart the prodution of our own equipment and use that highly experienced core of workers that are twiddling their thumbs at this time .
like this?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/n...for-royal-navy
and this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1DV7J0xyuc
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Just an idle thought, did the crews on the shiny fleet call it the Vickers Funbus? Or just . . . . 
Then of course, Albert, NigNog, Shacklebomber
How about Waddo's finest, do any of them have nicknames?
Then of course, Albert, NigNog, Shacklebomber
How about Waddo's finest, do any of them have nicknames?
The one thing I have taken away from books such as Empire of the Clouds or Project Cancelled is that generally the post-war British aviation industry only concerned itself with supplying the RAF, FAA, BOAC and BEA, as the rate of procurement more than kept them happy. Furthermore the Government would always come to them first, so they didn't have to work too hard at it. With a few notable exceptions no major effort was put into designing aircraft that the home market didn't want, or even selling those that they did to other markets. A lot of exports were to traditional customers, those who normally bought British. Aircraft such as the Hunter and the Meteor were the exception rather than the rule.
By the time they had to work at it, in the 1960s, the Americans and the French were way ahead. There were three primary Mach 2 fighters in NATO in the 1960s, the F-104, the Mirage III and the Lightning. Two of those were also exported in big numbers. Guess which one wasn't.
A simplification for sure, but so too is the idea that our aircraft were far ahead of anybody else's -and as an enthusiast and historian I am a huge fan of early jets. How many pilots from No.77 Squadron RAAF would have gladly traded their Meteors for F-86s?
By the time they had to work at it, in the 1960s, the Americans and the French were way ahead. There were three primary Mach 2 fighters in NATO in the 1960s, the F-104, the Mirage III and the Lightning. Two of those were also exported in big numbers. Guess which one wasn't.
A simplification for sure, but so too is the idea that our aircraft were far ahead of anybody else's -and as an enthusiast and historian I am a huge fan of early jets. How many pilots from No.77 Squadron RAAF would have gladly traded their Meteors for F-86s?
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Originally Posted by royalist something
I'm certainly not either an ex-Typhoon driver nor a spotter. But a friend of mine who was a Typhoon driver (now peacefully flying tourist day-trippers) refers to them as Tiffie and to Tonkas as Tonkas. He left before Leuchars closed.
So no one thinks w could ever produce a Lightning again? We'd always have to ask the Americans or the French/Germans "please can we use our aeroplanes to shoot something down?"
Presumably we can't hot wire the F-35 to use as we wish, when we wish.....
So no one thinks w could ever produce a Lightning again? We'd always have to ask the Americans or the French/Germans "please can we use our aeroplanes to shoot something down?"
Presumably we can't hot wire the F-35 to use as we wish, when we wish.....
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Originally Posted by pious pilot
Bell-end derived assertion
Forget flugzeugen, get into leading edge stuff like coming up with a successor to a certain brand of coal briquette powered barbeque. Show the yanks that Britain may yet be great again..... Queue snippet 'Land of Hope and Glory'.
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Martin the Martian
Your comparison of Lightning V Mirage is a good one. Adding the F104 to the list totally skews it IMHO. Now the facts of how some F104 sales were organised have come out its quite clear it wasn't always selected as it was seen as the best or cheapest option for the task.
Your comparison of Lightning V Mirage is a good one. Adding the F104 to the list totally skews it IMHO. Now the facts of how some F104 sales were organised have come out its quite clear it wasn't always selected as it was seen as the best or cheapest option for the task.
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@ Cracklingjet (post 16)
Have a read of this report for an idea of what the UK aerospace sector is worth:
http://researchbriefings.files.parli...28/SN00928.pdf
As someone working in the UK aerospace sector, I can assure you we are extremely busy - so busy we've run out of desks to accommodate the staff needed to work the projects we have.
"Drinking from a hosepipe" is a phrase that has been coined on site.
Sure we don't make whole aircraft anymore, but then who does? The US, China? Not quite, all rely on systems bought in from overseas. Boeing, Airbus and Comac are all integrators of bought in parts, none of them build every last item for an aircraft. It's globalisation, and it seems to be working pretty well for the UK.
Sure we outsource work to other countries - we have to if we're to stay competitive. UK workers (including me) want too much money!
Have a read of this report for an idea of what the UK aerospace sector is worth:
http://researchbriefings.files.parli...28/SN00928.pdf
As someone working in the UK aerospace sector, I can assure you we are extremely busy - so busy we've run out of desks to accommodate the staff needed to work the projects we have.
"Drinking from a hosepipe" is a phrase that has been coined on site.
Sure we don't make whole aircraft anymore, but then who does? The US, China? Not quite, all rely on systems bought in from overseas. Boeing, Airbus and Comac are all integrators of bought in parts, none of them build every last item for an aircraft. It's globalisation, and it seems to be working pretty well for the UK.
Sure we outsource work to other countries - we have to if we're to stay competitive. UK workers (including me) want too much money!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Reminds me when I was a callow youth and my skipper a DOM of at least 28, and we were given a trip to LA and finished up at a Burlsque in China Town. Free to get in but drinks outrageous.
Always remember Tornado Tonga, her with the contra rotating tassels and the backwards press ups on a rotating circular divan.
Sorry, 50 years ago but just like yesterday.
Always remember Tornado Tonga, her with the contra rotating tassels and the backwards press ups on a rotating circular divan.
Sorry, 50 years ago but just like yesterday.
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So apart from silly one upmanship about using a term. Are we saying that sure, we ca have the bits and bobs manufactured wherever and put them together ourselves. But that isn't really what I was asking. My point was can we still fully design an aircraft suited entirely to our own needs and bring the project to fruition? It doesn't much matter who made what, the point is the French and Swedes both did it. Russia does it. Can we and more to the point should we? We are an island and the thought of running out of bits or having a foreign country veto our use of it in our national interests is what interests me.
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I think the answer would have to be no, because we can't afford it and nobody (RN/Army/RAF) actually wants or needs it.
One of the points of NATO is that we are not going to fall out with the countries that are supplying our spare parts.
One of the points of NATO is that we are not going to fall out with the countries that are supplying our spare parts.