Tiffie splashes Raptor?

[bigsmelly]

Can anyone tell me why air forces put kill markings on jets, when it's the result of a training sorties where no aircraft was actually destroyed?

It seems a bit silly to me, and devalues the whle idea.

[Vzlet]

These occasional buzzes of excitement when someone earns and publicizes an F-22 "kill" are perhaps an encouraging indication of how capable an aircraft it really is. An opposite outcome seems to be neither newsworthy nor "stencil-worthy".

[melmothtw]

Agreed Vzlet, and the fact that the USAF has kept a dignified silence about this and all other claims for F-22 'shoot-downs' tells you all you need to know about their thoughts on the subject.

[KenV]

It would seem that the F-15's experience might be a good guide here.

How many "kill" claims have been posted against the F-15 in simulated combat? Dozens? Hundreds?

What is the kill ratio of the F-15 in actual combat?

[Rhino power]

Originally Posted by KenV

It would seem that the F-15's experience might be a good guide here.

How many "kill" claims have been posted against the F-15 in simulated combat? Dozens? Hundreds?

What is the kill ratio of the F-15 in actual combat?

The difference is that the 'kills' during simulated combat will not only have been under very different conditions, but also (I assume...) during simulated combat with allies, who may or may not, depending on your viewpoint, be better trained than those pilots against whom the F-15 achieved 'real' combat kills...

-RP

[The Helpful Stacker]

Originally Posted by melmothtw

.....the fact that the USAF has kept a dignified silence about this and all other claims for F-22 'shoot-downs' tells you all you need to know about their thoughts on the subject.

The RAF has also kept a dignified silence, this rumour is based on nothing more than spotters sounding off on Twitter.

[F-16GUY]

Tiffie at the recieving end.

Here is a video of a Tiffie at the receiving end of a 35 year old Danish F-16.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAedQ7FMiKo

Obviously aircraft performance is important, but more important is the pilots ability to know the strengths and weaknesses of both his and the opponents aircraft. What you want is to fight any opponent in the area where your jet has the biggest advantage over his.

Fighting a Tiffie in the Viper (Guns only), I would go for at two circle fight (rate). If I was in the Tiffie flying against a Viper I would go for a single circle fight and exploit the vertical.

By the way, the arrival of HOB missiles and Helmet mounted Sights have redefined BFM. Merging with any other fighter in an AIM-9X/HMCS equipped Viper I would sell everything, use the vertical and be the first to get a high off-bore shot. If it is a miss I am toast....

[JointShiteFighter]

Originally Posted by melmothtw

.....the fact that the USAF has kept a dignified silence about this and all other claims for F-22 'shoot-downs' tells you all you need to know about their thoughts on the subject.

It doesn't tell me anything other than the USAF, like the RAF, will not go in to any details about Exercise results as they are classified. Rightly so!

Whether the F-22 is a turkey or the best thing to leave the ground, the majority of people will never know until it's successfully used in anger in the air defence role. It might look nice when it's thrown about at air shows, but that doesn't tell anybody anything about its true capabilities, or else the U.S. Government wouldn't allow it to be displayed.

[Mogwi]

In the early 80s I got a SHAR guns solution on a USN F18 out of Cecil but would have swapped seats with him any day!

I used to tell my boys that the best pilot in the world could be killed by the JP who crept up behind them unseen. And yes, I did get 4 real ones!

Swing the lamp!