Likely targets for Corbyn Defence cuts?
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Likely targets for Corbyn Defence cuts?
Jeremy Corbyn hints at huge military cuts if he wins power: Left-wing Labour leadership favourite tells final TV debate he 'can't think' of any reason to deploy British troops.
http://http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3221543/Tories-throw-Labour-leadership-election-bid-wipe-party-says-leadership-hopeful-Liz-Kendall-final-TV-debate.html#ixzz3kmWgt2cV[/URL]
Without getting into a discussion on whether he's likely ever to be elected as PM, just where might his axe fall? Even if he reduced defence spending by half that would only be enough to run the NHS for about 8 weeks so he's going to have to make some pretty swingeing cuts in order to boost social spending. Army reduced to a Home Guard, RAF down to a few fisheries patrol aircraft, RN some coastal patrol ships? FI garrison gone entirely obviously although with their revenues from fishing licences & oil they could probably afford a dozen F16s flown by mercenary pilots to ward off their neighbours. They could even purchase all the kit going for sale cheap from UK PLC. They'd be plenty of manpower available too.
http://http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3221543/Tories-throw-Labour-leadership-election-bid-wipe-party-says-leadership-hopeful-Liz-Kendall-final-TV-debate.html#ixzz3kmWgt2cV[/URL]
Without getting into a discussion on whether he's likely ever to be elected as PM, just where might his axe fall? Even if he reduced defence spending by half that would only be enough to run the NHS for about 8 weeks so he's going to have to make some pretty swingeing cuts in order to boost social spending. Army reduced to a Home Guard, RAF down to a few fisheries patrol aircraft, RN some coastal patrol ships? FI garrison gone entirely obviously although with their revenues from fishing licences & oil they could probably afford a dozen F16s flown by mercenary pilots to ward off their neighbours. They could even purchase all the kit going for sale cheap from UK PLC. They'd be plenty of manpower available too.
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I predict he will never get to be PM as long as I have a hole in my ass.... And the chances of that healing over are pretty nigh impossible..
Myself, I'd increase social spending and give the unemployed more in the first year, but then scale it down in increments until by the end of year 5 you would get nothing.
Myself, I'd increase social spending and give the unemployed more in the first year, but then scale it down in increments until by the end of year 5 you would get nothing.
Well said Nutty, whilst I have little doubt that the sheople of both Toffs and Liebore are at best "easily led", surely, no one could wish for a return to the politics of the 60s ? Ahh, thank goodness I'm old enough to be looking forward to ensuring my children get something from my impending demise. I know for certain, the options available for Britain's way forward in the coming years will be degraded with either party dominating. Politics, the refuge of the true scoundrel !!
Smudge
Smudge
What would he cut? If you look at his website and the priorities section, Defence doesn't appear but Peace does. I suspect he would cut everything back to a gendarmerie type function whilst bolstering the likes of DFID and various other departments on the tree-hugging side of politics. Less talk quietly but carry a big stick, more stay silent and give your enemy your stick.
Corbyn is positively dangerous for this country on so many levels. Yes, he's a bit of a joke at the outset, and there are many that will enjoy seeing Labour become unelectable for years, but this is a sort sighted sentiment. With the backing of so many of the Unions, Corbyn doesn't need to become PM to wield power and influence. He can get the Unions to carry his big stick for him. He can shout from the Opposition benches with impunity, knowing he will never have to stand on the other side of the House; the Unions will do his dirty work for him and we will enter into a period of anarco-syndicalism where the Government will spend all it's time trying to counter Union disruption and action, spurred on by Corbyn's unique brand of 6th Form socialism. They won't have the time or capacity to do anything vaguely constructive or productive other than countering Union action. Further, Corbyn will represent only a small section of the Labour Party leaving large elements on the centre-left effectively unrepresented, clearly not a good state for a democracy to be in regardless of your political persuasion.
Laugh all we like now, but things could become very complicated very quickly if Corbyn gets in. And if he does, don't count on your new build AH-64s, F-35s or carriers any time soon.
Corbyn is positively dangerous for this country on so many levels. Yes, he's a bit of a joke at the outset, and there are many that will enjoy seeing Labour become unelectable for years, but this is a sort sighted sentiment. With the backing of so many of the Unions, Corbyn doesn't need to become PM to wield power and influence. He can get the Unions to carry his big stick for him. He can shout from the Opposition benches with impunity, knowing he will never have to stand on the other side of the House; the Unions will do his dirty work for him and we will enter into a period of anarco-syndicalism where the Government will spend all it's time trying to counter Union disruption and action, spurred on by Corbyn's unique brand of 6th Form socialism. They won't have the time or capacity to do anything vaguely constructive or productive other than countering Union action. Further, Corbyn will represent only a small section of the Labour Party leaving large elements on the centre-left effectively unrepresented, clearly not a good state for a democracy to be in regardless of your political persuasion.
Laugh all we like now, but things could become very complicated very quickly if Corbyn gets in. And if he does, don't count on your new build AH-64s, F-35s or carriers any time soon.
Don't panic Captain Mainwaring - first he has to be elected leader, then survive nearly five year to a general election, then win it - so I am not really even considering a Corbyn Government in 2020 if I am still here that is!!
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OK, I'll bite and defend Corbyn.
I watched him carefully on the C4 news electoral special a few nights ago. Thought that he and the other candidates were very good, in a pretty fluid and wide ranging debate.
Generally, he seems to be the kind of man who speaks his mind and generally holds onto his ideals. A "signpost" rather than a "weathervane" as Benn once said about grading politicos.
He has generally offered a completely differing, contrarian view to the 30 year old herd that's steered us to where we are today.
And where exactly British foreign policy is, and where its defence is....watching the crises unroll across he MENA and now into Europe...well this is exactly anyone's guess.
Could he be worse?
So for want of taking my old age along with people with differing nay radical ideas, well I'm all for it at times.
Love to debate further but battery dying (PC, not heart).
Keep on working for the Mail and Daily Telegraph (totally a horse**** paper these days) anyway lads!
I watched him carefully on the C4 news electoral special a few nights ago. Thought that he and the other candidates were very good, in a pretty fluid and wide ranging debate.
Generally, he seems to be the kind of man who speaks his mind and generally holds onto his ideals. A "signpost" rather than a "weathervane" as Benn once said about grading politicos.
He has generally offered a completely differing, contrarian view to the 30 year old herd that's steered us to where we are today.
And where exactly British foreign policy is, and where its defence is....watching the crises unroll across he MENA and now into Europe...well this is exactly anyone's guess.
Could he be worse?
So for want of taking my old age along with people with differing nay radical ideas, well I'm all for it at times.
Love to debate further but battery dying (PC, not heart).
Keep on working for the Mail and Daily Telegraph (totally a horse**** paper these days) anyway lads!
Unfortunately anyone under the age of about 40 won't remember the "good old days" Corbyn is talking about returning to, with his talk of re-nationalizing industries, re-opening coal mines, etc...
The "good old days" that is of the 3 day working week, power cuts, rubbish bags piling up on the streets infested with rats, secondary picketing, etc....
I for one do remember.
THIS MAN IS DANGEROUS!!
At least Union membership is less significant than in the late 1970s:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...letin-2013.pdf
Indeed the main bastion of Union membership is now the public sector, 55%, compared to 14% in the private sector.
The "good old days" that is of the 3 day working week, power cuts, rubbish bags piling up on the streets infested with rats, secondary picketing, etc....
I for one do remember.
THIS MAN IS DANGEROUS!!
At least Union membership is less significant than in the late 1970s:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...letin-2013.pdf
Indeed the main bastion of Union membership is now the public sector, 55%, compared to 14% in the private sector.
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And anyway as my computer dies, the Guradian video with Corbyn seems to be about never deploying UK military abroad again. Its not about cancelling UK defence.
(Traditionally New Labour gave defence quite a bit, funded quite a lot. Cons are the one's who have slashed it repeatedly and very recently "see eyes passum".
Having seen the UK military close up and been on numerous deploys at sea and in the MENA until recentlyish..maybe he's actually right? We are now very, very, very small and we cannot seem to muster enough the operate with any real credibility (or sadly any effectiveness-there are many reasons for that-an unwillingness to accept young lost Brithish lives being primary).
Sad but true, Britain in the mid 21st century is very small. Corbyn knows this.
(Traditionally New Labour gave defence quite a bit, funded quite a lot. Cons are the one's who have slashed it repeatedly and very recently "see eyes passum".
Having seen the UK military close up and been on numerous deploys at sea and in the MENA until recentlyish..maybe he's actually right? We are now very, very, very small and we cannot seem to muster enough the operate with any real credibility (or sadly any effectiveness-there are many reasons for that-an unwillingness to accept young lost Brithish lives being primary).
Sad but true, Britain in the mid 21st century is very small. Corbyn knows this.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Assuming he gets elected, we could be in for a few months of fun at PMQs. How long do you give it before the people who really care about the party organise a coup?
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I'm in no way a fan of Mr Corbin but we as a nation badly need an informed debate on our defence requirements from all sides of the political spectrum. I am unfashionable in wishing we didn't have to carry the financial burden of nuclear weapons that we will never, ever use! What good are they in asymmetric warfare? That money could be far better spent on manpower using conventional weapons.
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It is highly unlikely that Jeremy Corbyn will ever fight a general election as Labour Party leader if he is elected to the position - before the election,sooner rather than later he will be deposed with a vote of no confidence by Labour M.Ps. It is fairly predictable that Dan Jarvis - in spite of his refusal to stand as leader for family reasons at this time - will be persuaded to stand for party leader.If this does not happen the Labour party will be consigned to history as a major political party.Mr Jarvis in my opinion is the only Labour MP that would be capable of leading a future Labour party as there is a sad lack of political talent in the UK at present - in all the parties for that matter.
Rosevidney, totally agree! Who are our Trident missiles targeted at these days ? I assume the Russians, because there's no other, obvious, target of national proportions. So, why have them? The cost of replacement would go a long way to procuring some very useful kit for the low level, religion based skirmishes we seem to be destined to fight for decades to come. No doubt, tactical nukes hold their validity, the trident deterrent has little or no effect on the religious zealot who believes it his duty to die for his God, believing in an afterlife full of virgins etc. Of course, having a nuclear deterrent gives us a seat at the table at the UN, and allows politicians like Cameron to big himself up on the world stage. It would be nice to think his military advisors are telling him, to spend the money more wisely.
Smudge
Smudge
I wish I could share your collective confidence that despite the odds on Corbyn never being PM he won't be able to cause chaos through the Unions.
And with no 'wars' on and large scale military deployments (I'm talking HERRICK style and size) I can see the military being drawn into various MACP scenarios to keep the country running when the Unions walk out. Corbyn+Unions+SNP is a frightening prospect for any fair minded person in their right minds.
And with no 'wars' on and large scale military deployments (I'm talking HERRICK style and size) I can see the military being drawn into various MACP scenarios to keep the country running when the Unions walk out. Corbyn+Unions+SNP is a frightening prospect for any fair minded person in their right minds.
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We are now very, very, very small and we cannot seem to muster enough the operate with any real credibility (or sadly any effectiveness-there are many reasons for that-an unwillingness to accept young lost Brithish lives being primary).
Sad but true, Britain in the mid 21st century is very small. Corbyn knows this.
Sad but true, Britain in the mid 21st century is very small. Corbyn knows this.
Yes the military is much smaller than it used to be, but that is because we have chosen it to be; they get much less, as a slice of the pie, than they have had at any point since WW2. We have the resources to have a military twice the size, we just choose not to.
Those that say we are a tiny, insignificant nation, are not only wrong, they're in danger of talking us into a total withdrawal from world politics
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I don't believe that a Corbyn is unelectable - it's not so long ago that he was something of a 'joke' candidate allowed in to widen the debate before a 'proper' person took the post - now he looks like winning. In 5 years time if the electorate is tired of 'austerity' (despite an ever increasing debt) and fed up of DC/ Osborne they may well vote for Labour. Defence is rarely a major issue at elections and as some of the above comments show there are plenty of people who could be taken in by his sincere and reasonable manner and make him PM. At that point a great deal of what we know in the UK will go, not just in defence. The man is an anti-American republican who believes in uni-lateral disarmament in favour of a high tax state with pretty much all major service industries nationalised. It's no wonder the unions love him & their support would prevent Labour MPs removing him even if those that didn't support Corbyn had been allowed to retain their seats in the preceding 5 years.
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Could I just say that even though what I know about politics would fill an egg cup, his "leadership rivals" lack any sort of charisma, have an enormous amount of baggage from the Blair/Brown years and are seen as typical politicians, ie slimy little no marks that don't give a toss. As ever the one that shouts systemic change the loudest will win. If he becomes leader just wait for the press to dig up his history.....it'll be a bloody good read!
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He would cut everything military related and transfer it to foreign aid. He's very dangerous, and largely incompetent too, and when he gets in they'll probably kick him out in a coup.
@NutLoose
They export manufacturing to China, then complain about unemployment.
@Melchett01
The Tories are the ones helping Corbyn to get in because they essentially screwed over the young in favour of pensioner's votes, instead of governing in the interests of everyone.
@smujsmith
If Trident is abolished, we will get ZERO extra conventional kit. Some extra money will go into foreign aid and diplomacy to compensate for "lost power", and the vast majority will go into other departments like the NHS. If anything it would enable bigger cuts to conventional forces as they would argue the UK no longer has a global role, and so can do away with things like air refueling and much of the RFA.
@NutLoose
They export manufacturing to China, then complain about unemployment.
@Melchett01
The Tories are the ones helping Corbyn to get in because they essentially screwed over the young in favour of pensioner's votes, instead of governing in the interests of everyone.
@smujsmith
If Trident is abolished, we will get ZERO extra conventional kit. Some extra money will go into foreign aid and diplomacy to compensate for "lost power", and the vast majority will go into other departments like the NHS. If anything it would enable bigger cuts to conventional forces as they would argue the UK no longer has a global role, and so can do away with things like air refueling and much of the RFA.
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What would be left of the military? After a radical change:
The army reduced with Government House (what was called Buckingham Palace) housing the life time elected president protected by a picket line of the 1st Miners' Brigade "Orgreave Memorial Company", known by the nick-name "The Bully Boys".
The Royal marines band replaced by members of the Dockers' Union volunteer band.
The RAF now known as the Flying Pickets, consisting of just the president's private air-liner. Meanwhile, the national aerobatic team, "The Red Flag Arrows" has been grounded because of on-going disputes over pay, conditions, pensions, and anything else that they can think of to get their extra 35%.
The army reduced with Government House (what was called Buckingham Palace) housing the life time elected president protected by a picket line of the 1st Miners' Brigade "Orgreave Memorial Company", known by the nick-name "The Bully Boys".
The Royal marines band replaced by members of the Dockers' Union volunteer band.
The RAF now known as the Flying Pickets, consisting of just the president's private air-liner. Meanwhile, the national aerobatic team, "The Red Flag Arrows" has been grounded because of on-going disputes over pay, conditions, pensions, and anything else that they can think of to get their extra 35%.