Hawker Hunter Crash at Shoreham Airshow
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@ ORAC and Onceapilot
Interesting video angle, that first vapour shot almost seems to originate from around the left aft fuselage area.
I watched G-HHUN taxy out from Bournemouth as a 4 ship on that fateful day only to return back down the taxiway with an electrical tech issue, aircraft shutdown, dropped a panel behind the where the gun pack was located, quick rectification, startup fast taxi and caught up with others en-route to Biggin.
As it left the apron it started venting fuel from the port side of the fuselage under the wing trailing edge, at the time it was thought to be normal as the aircraft departed the apron very quickly in a right hand turn, I personally witnessed the whole event up close from about 10 feet away, the rest was history.
Interesting video angle, that first vapour shot almost seems to originate from around the left aft fuselage area.
I watched G-HHUN taxy out from Bournemouth as a 4 ship on that fateful day only to return back down the taxiway with an electrical tech issue, aircraft shutdown, dropped a panel behind the where the gun pack was located, quick rectification, startup fast taxi and caught up with others en-route to Biggin.
As it left the apron it started venting fuel from the port side of the fuselage under the wing trailing edge, at the time it was thought to be normal as the aircraft departed the apron very quickly in a right hand turn, I personally witnessed the whole event up close from about 10 feet away, the rest was history.
Last edited by Above The Clouds; 1st Sep 2015 at 09:48. Reason: spelling HUNN HHUN
This photo on airliners.net shows perfectly the accident aircraft venting fuel from the starboard drop tank during a display at Biggin Hill in September 2014.
Photos: Hawker Hunter T7 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
Photos: Hawker Hunter T7 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
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KarlADrage
This photo on airliners.net shows perfectly the accident aircraft venting fuel from the starboard drop tank during a display at Biggin Hill in September 2014.
This photo on airliners.net shows perfectly the accident aircraft venting fuel from the starboard drop tank during a display at Biggin Hill in September 2014.
The accident has yet to make the monthly aviation magazines, with Flypast and Aeroplane going to press before it happened.
I will be interested to see how it is covered, but as much of the aviation media never likes to report bad or controversial news I suspect it will along the lines of 'we won't comment on anything until the report is published'. This is the polar opposite of the feeding frenzy in the national media, and if so will be in my eyes as unacceptable. As an event that will have a huge impact in aviation in the UK, airshows and the general perception of vintage aircraft, I hope the specialist press will come out all guns blazing to report the event soberly, offer a reasoned, balanced viewpoint and refute the sensationalist crap in the dailies. I know it is preaching to the converted but these magazines are on sale in public venues and if just a handful of people pick one up out of curiosity, read something sensible and learn about what happened it might help.
Just a thought.
I will be interested to see how it is covered, but as much of the aviation media never likes to report bad or controversial news I suspect it will along the lines of 'we won't comment on anything until the report is published'. This is the polar opposite of the feeding frenzy in the national media, and if so will be in my eyes as unacceptable. As an event that will have a huge impact in aviation in the UK, airshows and the general perception of vintage aircraft, I hope the specialist press will come out all guns blazing to report the event soberly, offer a reasoned, balanced viewpoint and refute the sensationalist crap in the dailies. I know it is preaching to the converted but these magazines are on sale in public venues and if just a handful of people pick one up out of curiosity, read something sensible and learn about what happened it might help.
Just a thought.
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Martin
The aviation mags do report accidents but don't in general have all the grim imagery. And the reason it gets a reasonable report in magazines is that some of us (that did once work) in aviation publishing and some of the editors knew the victims on several occasions.
V1
The aviation mags do report accidents but don't in general have all the grim imagery. And the reason it gets a reasonable report in magazines is that some of us (that did once work) in aviation publishing and some of the editors knew the victims on several occasions.
V1
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Was AH flying the jet in the RHS? I saw a photo in one of the papers last weekend where I thought I could see a bone dome. Not sure if my eyes are playing tricks on me. Anybody else see anything?
P.S. I think it was the Daily Mail and the article related to the people who has a near miss. I have been out of the country since Saturday so any news on AH?
P.S. I think it was the Daily Mail and the article related to the people who has a near miss. I have been out of the country since Saturday so any news on AH?
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Inquest
Just heard on the radio that the inquest into the deaths started today. Although all answers will not be forthcoming at least the process has started. My thoughts are with the families of those killed.
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The coroner has promised the families a 'full and fearless inquiry' with the inquest expected in June 2016.
http:///www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-34117125
http:///www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-34117125
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Fine Pitch
Suggest you read article by Jon Whaley who really does know his stuff. Better to remain silent and appear a fool than to open the mouth and remove all possible doubt. You will note than Jon refuses to speculate a view which I thoroughly respect. Remain in coarse pitch!
'fearless'
was that the word actually used by the coroner?
Is it just me, or is that an unnecessarily emotionally loaded adjective? Makes him/her sound like a right ****, with some kind of premeditated bias.
was that the word actually used by the coroner?
Is it just me, or is that an unnecessarily emotionally loaded adjective? Makes him/her sound like a right ****, with some kind of premeditated bias.
According to the Beeb lunchtime news the coroner was a she, and she ordered that police and AAIB investigations be concluded before her next report in 6/2016.
I am sure the AAIB will take no notice and proceed with their customary diligence.
I am sure the AAIB will take no notice and proceed with their customary diligence.
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Some more thoughts on looping the Hawker Hunter
My copy of Pilot’s Notes HUNTER T.7 A.P. 4347G–P.N. August 1958 states on page 88.
(b) Loop 425 knots
It is recommended that until experience is gained, loops are started in the height band 10,000ft to 15,000 ft.
Rumours & News pprune post #55 .... pilot states
Having been around Hunters for a large part of my aviation career I can say it's not uncommon for a Hunter pilot to use "1 notch" of flap for maneuvering.
On these pages we are talking about an experienced display pilot starting a solo loop not at a PN recommended 10,000’, but in denser air at around 500’ agl.
My guess is that he would start the pull up at about 350 - 380 kts using full power and one notch of flap. Full power would be maintained all the way round the loop with the pilot smoothly pulling more or less ‘g’ so as to achieve the desired speeds at each point in the loop. Thus if the Hunter is slow at the top of the loop, stick pressure would be briefly slackened to enable the Hunter to accelerate to say 200kts or more and get some ‘g’ bite on the air before starting on the downward path, with a gradual increase in ‘g’ being applied with increasing speed.
A truly circular loop is never the aim: a safe loop at manageable handling speeds is the aim as fighter aircraft accelerate quickly and often lose speed very quickly when ‘g’ is pulled at lowish speeds. Thus a low level display Hunter loop is very unlikely ever to be a true round circle.
The aircraft aerodynamic capability must come first. As long as the Hunter goes up to a defined ‘gate height and speed’ to ensure a safe downward flight path, the observation that the aircraft is indeed slowish, or flying level upside down for a few seconds at the top to gain speed is not of great note to Joe Public the viewer.
The Hunter solo display pilot would use a high power setting and maintain this high power all the way round the loop pulling more or sometimes less ‘g’ as required to control the speed. A target speed plan might be around 350 - 380 kts at the start and at the finish with a desired 180 kts at the top of the loop.
Two footnotes:
Digressing to the Lightning, low level solo display loops were flown all the way round in max reheat, pulling more or sometimes less ‘g’ to control speed and shape. Safe aerodynamic control and a modicum of airfield positioning came way ahead of the impossible desire of achieving a truly round loop.
Back to the Hawker Hunter: Flying 16 or 22 Hunters in a formation loop at the Farnborough Air Show was altogether a more demanding and daunting prospect for the Leader – and those who followed him.
(b) Loop 425 knots
It is recommended that until experience is gained, loops are started in the height band 10,000ft to 15,000 ft.
Rumours & News pprune post #55 .... pilot states
Having been around Hunters for a large part of my aviation career I can say it's not uncommon for a Hunter pilot to use "1 notch" of flap for maneuvering.
On these pages we are talking about an experienced display pilot starting a solo loop not at a PN recommended 10,000’, but in denser air at around 500’ agl.
My guess is that he would start the pull up at about 350 - 380 kts using full power and one notch of flap. Full power would be maintained all the way round the loop with the pilot smoothly pulling more or less ‘g’ so as to achieve the desired speeds at each point in the loop. Thus if the Hunter is slow at the top of the loop, stick pressure would be briefly slackened to enable the Hunter to accelerate to say 200kts or more and get some ‘g’ bite on the air before starting on the downward path, with a gradual increase in ‘g’ being applied with increasing speed.
A truly circular loop is never the aim: a safe loop at manageable handling speeds is the aim as fighter aircraft accelerate quickly and often lose speed very quickly when ‘g’ is pulled at lowish speeds. Thus a low level display Hunter loop is very unlikely ever to be a true round circle.
The aircraft aerodynamic capability must come first. As long as the Hunter goes up to a defined ‘gate height and speed’ to ensure a safe downward flight path, the observation that the aircraft is indeed slowish, or flying level upside down for a few seconds at the top to gain speed is not of great note to Joe Public the viewer.
The Hunter solo display pilot would use a high power setting and maintain this high power all the way round the loop pulling more or sometimes less ‘g’ as required to control the speed. A target speed plan might be around 350 - 380 kts at the start and at the finish with a desired 180 kts at the top of the loop.
Two footnotes:
Digressing to the Lightning, low level solo display loops were flown all the way round in max reheat, pulling more or sometimes less ‘g’ to control speed and shape. Safe aerodynamic control and a modicum of airfield positioning came way ahead of the impossible desire of achieving a truly round loop.
Back to the Hawker Hunter: Flying 16 or 22 Hunters in a formation loop at the Farnborough Air Show was altogether a more demanding and daunting prospect for the Leader – and those who followed him.
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Suggest you read article by Jon Whaley who really does know his stuff
Moreover, rather than slinging out random insults, if you read the thread in detail you will quickly find that as regards the actual accident, most "good" contributors have followed exactly the same stance as JW - discussion good; speculation bad. Of course there are the misguided, judgmental etc...it's the internet FFS.
Most of the disagreement on the thread relates to air displays and their conduct in general. This tragedy is only an element in that discourse and for many of us who have been around aviation a long time, it was an inevitable accident waiting to happen. Frankly the outcome of any AAIB report will have very little bearing on many peoples opinions of air displays, whichever side of the debate they sit on.
I think the larger air display debate on this particular thread is...
healthy
timely
not speculative
largely well informed
mostly professional
welcome
There are other "troll-infested" threads around pprune running about this accident and the air display consequences, which are far from the above. If you just want to slag people off, you could pop on to one of them and have a dig.
JFZ90
I guess that if you were a relative in the courtroom, still in shock at your loss, you would want to hear that the Coroner, the legal or medically qualified person appointed to provide a verdict as to the cause of death, was going to do everything possible to get answers as to why your loved ones were killed while going about their business. Or is there something you find particularly distasteful about that?
Makes him/her sound like a right ****, with some kind of premeditated bias.