Hawker Hunter Crash at Shoreham Airshow
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Age: 70
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Above the Clouds - So what?
This is a public forum for discussion not some sort of hallowed hall where contributors have to comment in whispers. There are people, very angry people out there today who have lost relatives.....
This is a public forum for discussion not some sort of hallowed hall where contributors have to comment in whispers. There are people, very angry people out there today who have lost relatives.....
Because this is a "public forum" that somehow gives strangers license to engage in wild speculation, make wild accusations, jump to wild conclusions, and otherwise publicly act like total jerks on behalf of those who lost loved one in a terrible tragedy.
How sad.
Fascinating.
Because this is a "public forum" that somehow gives strangers license to engage in wild speculation, make wild accusations, jump to wild conclusions, and otherwise publicly act like total jerks on behalf of those who lost loved one in a terrible tragedy.
How sad.
Because this is a "public forum" that somehow gives strangers license to engage in wild speculation, make wild accusations, jump to wild conclusions, and otherwise publicly act like total jerks on behalf of those who lost loved one in a terrible tragedy.
How sad.
CG
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Age: 70
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Every airshow accident has a negative impact on aviation that far outweighs a thousand successful demonstrations. If there is a fatality to the pilot then even more so, and if to the public then you can expect the hammers of hell to come down.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Age: 70
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KenV, are you describing Prune or the media in general?
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Ashbourne Co Meath Ireland
Age: 73
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would suggest that the reason the Red Arrows don't do aerobatic displays at Shoreham is because of the high ground at 700 Ft directly to the north of the airfield, less than 2 miles away, to fly aerobatics over Shoreham would mean having an 1000 Ft ceiling, and with Gatwick not far away, and the TMA base at FL55, that's effectively limiting them to a horizontal display, which at 1000 Ft is going to look very mundane indeed.
Shoreham has some very specific and difficult issues with terrain, I trained there 20 years ago, and the approach to runway 20 can be very tricky in some winds, due to that high ground and the Arun valley that is just to the north of the airfield. The descent from the loop on Saturday would have been in the area that can be most tricky, with Easterly winds, both downdraught and a tail wind could have been part of the scenario on Saturday, which would not have helped.
Shoreham has some very specific and difficult issues with terrain, I trained there 20 years ago, and the approach to runway 20 can be very tricky in some winds, due to that high ground and the Arun valley that is just to the north of the airfield. The descent from the loop on Saturday would have been in the area that can be most tricky, with Easterly winds, both downdraught and a tail wind could have been part of the scenario on Saturday, which would not have helped.
Last edited by Irish Steve; 24th Aug 2015 at 19:12. Reason: typo in the TMA level, sorry
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 1,873
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
If you want a high profile example, the Concorde fleet was grounded immediately after the Paris crash,
No it wasn't.
If you want a high profile example, the Concorde fleet was grounded immediately after the Paris crash,
No it wasn't.
Curious to know whether the Gnat has been grounded?
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My heart still goes out to the victims of this tragedy, but I am quite annoyed over the knee-jerk reaction from the CAA.
As much as I and thousands of others will protest, air shows will never be the same again. I'm just pleased that I was able to attend shows "when they were good".
As much as I and thousands of others will protest, air shows will never be the same again. I'm just pleased that I was able to attend shows "when they were good".
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South of the ex-North Devon flying club. North of Isca.
Age: 48
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed JSF and Cows. I suspect someone's been told to do something quick before more simple minded MPs jump on the ban the airshows bandwagon.
CAA becomes more like the alternative meaning of the TLA.....
CAA becomes more like the alternative meaning of the TLA.....
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Grounding the Hunter is knee jerk, but it's easy to do, with limited consequences as there are so few of them flying.
Quite why the Gnat hasn't, by the same logic, been grounded as well tends to reinforce that the grounding is more to do with public feeling given the tragic consequences of the Hunter crash whereas in the Gnat accident 'only' the pilot died.
Quite why the Gnat hasn't, by the same logic, been grounded as well tends to reinforce that the grounding is more to do with public feeling given the tragic consequences of the Hunter crash whereas in the Gnat accident 'only' the pilot died.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you want a high profile example, the Concorde fleet was grounded immediately after the Paris crash,
No it wasn't.
No it wasn't.
Apology accepted
I have no intention of apologising Old Fat One, I have nothing to apologise for. I didn't dispute that Concorde was grounded eventually, I disputed your assertion that it was grounded IMMEDIATELY, it wasn't. BA kept on flying their Concordes for a couple of weeks. It was only grounded after relevant facts came to light early in the investigation.
Amusingly, the report you linked to makes it perfectly clear that BA kept flying them after the crash, so they can't have been grounded.
So despite what you say, the grounding of an entire aircraft type the day after the crash is a highly unusual step.
Amusingly, the report you linked to makes it perfectly clear that BA kept flying them after the crash, so they can't have been grounded.
So despite what you say, the grounding of an entire aircraft type the day after the crash is a highly unusual step.
Last edited by Dr Jekyll; 24th Aug 2015 at 18:55. Reason: Just looked at OFOs link
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Sunny Side
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A terrible tragedy and simply unacceptable that this has happened on a busy public highway. There are a great many people involved with the organisation of this airshow and the flying displays who will need to answer some tough questions. I saw the Gnat crash a few weeks ago and that made me shudder with thoughts of what could have happened, and then this happens.
I may be wrong, but I don't recall quite so many (if any) vintage jets being displayed like this a few years ago. There are many who have said on this on this thread, and the one following the Gnat crash, that these pilots do it to entertain. I don't really buy that. Being much more cynical about this, I feel that it's more about the personal enjoyment for the flyers. Doing it at displays just helps fund it.
Finally, some of you morons who were calling for the pilot not to be named on the early pages of this thread, whilst it was clear that many others had died, should hang your heads in shame.
This was an appalling accident, and clearly very much avoidable.
S-D
I may be wrong, but I don't recall quite so many (if any) vintage jets being displayed like this a few years ago. There are many who have said on this on this thread, and the one following the Gnat crash, that these pilots do it to entertain. I don't really buy that. Being much more cynical about this, I feel that it's more about the personal enjoyment for the flyers. Doing it at displays just helps fund it.
Finally, some of you morons who were calling for the pilot not to be named on the early pages of this thread, whilst it was clear that many others had died, should hang your heads in shame.
This was an appalling accident, and clearly very much avoidable.
S-D
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I for one think "over the sea aerobatics" is the only way too go from now on after such a tragic event, anyone who thinks otherwise should try and put themselves in the innocent victims family's shoes, in any case after the forthcoming multi million pound compensation pay outs future insurance premiums will settle the argument £100 per ticket anyone? RIP all affected. Sean.
Quote:
Flying displays over land by vintage jet aircraft will be significantly restricted until further notice. They will be limited to flypasts, which means ‘high energy’ aerobatics will not be permitted.
How does this fit the Vulcan display?
Flying displays over land by vintage jet aircraft will be significantly restricted until further notice. They will be limited to flypasts, which means ‘high energy’ aerobatics will not be permitted.
How does this fit the Vulcan display?
Leuchars squadrons used to work up such display teams each year for the home show, long after they fizzled out elsewhere.
FB