One for the Jet Provost experts
Dominator2, I don't think we flew an arc let down in the Gnat. After levelling off from the TACAN dive, a quick whirl on the offset pots to set up for Point Foxtrot (was it 300/10?), then right onto an intercept heading for the ILS.
Limited panel in the Hunter after OR946 in the Gnat wasn't much fun!
Limited panel in the Hunter after OR946 in the Gnat wasn't much fun!
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My memories of the Eureka/Rebecca in both the JP 3/4 and the Mk1 Andover was that it was almost completely useless. The Andover display was CRT as opposed to the dial in the JP which seemed to roam the miles scale on the dial randomly.
The Zero Reader was also fitted to all Mks of Andover I flew and was simply a poor man's flight director but worked ok as long as the I/B course was set with the drift applied.
Happy days - when every ILS was a raw data ILS.
mcdhu
The Zero Reader was also fitted to all Mks of Andover I flew and was simply a poor man's flight director but worked ok as long as the I/B course was set with the drift applied.
Happy days - when every ILS was a raw data ILS.
mcdhu
I wonder if the varying experiences of Rebecca/Eureka performance was directly related to the period of those experiences. I seem to remember that in the very early 60's they were fairly positive. We drew out range circles in different colours from the Eureka stations and then covered the topo' in clear Fablon. When airborne in the JP a range from one, and then another (and yet another?) would usually result in a fix (again, as far as I recall).
Could it be that the reliability of the ground stations (even transmitting at all?) could have deteriorated in later years? Just a thought...
As to the Zero Reader, it was even fitted to the Hastings, Beagle. Unlike my experience above, I do not have any positive memories of it. It shared with the Decca Log Mk1 (as fitted to the Hercules MkI) a requirement for you to hand feed it before it would grudgingly tell you anything of value.
Could it be that the reliability of the ground stations (even transmitting at all?) could have deteriorated in later years? Just a thought...
As to the Zero Reader, it was even fitted to the Hastings, Beagle. Unlike my experience above, I do not have any positive memories of it. It shared with the Decca Log Mk1 (as fitted to the Hercules MkI) a requirement for you to hand feed it before it would grudgingly tell you anything of value.
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If the ACR6 was off, Eureka homing avoided too much chat on R/T for VDF, and fed nicely into BABS for an MDH (I don't think we called it that then) of 300ft, the same as an ACR7 approach. The trick was getting the drift right in the descent so that you didn't find yourself steaming through the C/L in the turn inbound, and it was as good as anything else that was available then. As to range, AFAIR Malta was good for 200nm.
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Dear gods the Zero Reader.
We had one in the Dominie and a bloody useless piece of ****e it was too.
It was far easier to fly a raw ILS than use the thing.
Unfortunately it was beloved of ME Stds so you ended up having to x many Zero Reader ILSs per month.
We had one in the Dominie and a bloody useless piece of ****e it was too.
It was far easier to fly a raw ILS than use the thing.
Unfortunately it was beloved of ME Stds so you ended up having to x many Zero Reader ILSs per month.
How amazingly fascinating is this thread - it should be a sticky comprising the most interesting non-precision approaches of the 60 -70s.
now, I recall, that a precision approach was defined as within 30deg of r/way caentreline (QDM?) where the touchdown point could be defined - and that gave you BOH. A non-precision approach left you with MDH, and, interestingly or not, you were allowed a dirty dart down to this height as soon as you had passed the gate.
mixed up in this was the circling minima, to convert the approach to a circuit.
there was a time when a Dominant obstacle allowance was added to an aircraft approach limitation, and maybe an extra 50ft for granny to give you something else that you kept a secret.
if really bored, do a PD to Alconbury.
The correct answer was, 30 sec to break or 200ft to land.
wets
now, I recall, that a precision approach was defined as within 30deg of r/way caentreline (QDM?) where the touchdown point could be defined - and that gave you BOH. A non-precision approach left you with MDH, and, interestingly or not, you were allowed a dirty dart down to this height as soon as you had passed the gate.
mixed up in this was the circling minima, to convert the approach to a circuit.
there was a time when a Dominant obstacle allowance was added to an aircraft approach limitation, and maybe an extra 50ft for granny to give you something else that you kept a secret.
if really bored, do a PD to Alconbury.
The correct answer was, 30 sec to break or 200ft to land.
wets
Last edited by Wetstart Dryrun; 17th Aug 2015 at 17:39. Reason: not that wet
Ah yes - "The dominant obstacle allowance for this airfield approach procedure is.... "
Bloody nonsense that was!
"Whatyagot to PAR, 200 to land!" was the usual response to that piece of Air trafficking. Or indeed "30 sec....!"
Bloody nonsense that was!
"Whatyagot to PAR, 200 to land!" was the usual response to that piece of Air trafficking. Or indeed "30 sec....!"
Aaaahhh. More half remembered stuff. You could (should) never go below MDH or BOH. But built into DH was 50ft to think maybe I land, maybe not. Criteria included (?) 2 bars of CL lighting. threshold , or threshold lights. runway sidelights. Fido.
...running rabbit at Hopsten was a bit of a surprise, first time in red.
I blame BAgel for keeping me awake thinking of stuff that is best forgotten
wets
...running rabbit at Hopsten was a bit of a surprise, first time in red.
I blame BAgel for keeping me awake thinking of stuff that is best forgotten
wets
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Over the years both as a student and a QFI spent many hours watching the range needle swing hopelessly across the dial.
Re Tacan dives, all the UK Lightning stations had a dive circle a la Valley, started from Fl 360 and ended at point Alpha, 18 miles on the extended centre line of the main instrument runway for a pick up by ATC.
The Hopsten running rabbit saved me getting into a very embarrassing situation one day. On an actual diversion from Gutersloh, not a lot of fuel left, at 200ft nothing other than the unearthly glow from the lights just penetrating the murk but enough to get me further down to see the runway lights, DH--not a lot.
Re Tacan dives, all the UK Lightning stations had a dive circle a la Valley, started from Fl 360 and ended at point Alpha, 18 miles on the extended centre line of the main instrument runway for a pick up by ATC.
The Hopsten running rabbit saved me getting into a very embarrassing situation one day. On an actual diversion from Gutersloh, not a lot of fuel left, at 200ft nothing other than the unearthly glow from the lights just penetrating the murk but enough to get me further down to see the runway lights, DH--not a lot.
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QFIing 68-72 on JPs, the Rebecca/Eureka was very useful during student IF trips or GH above cloud. Getting him to do a turn through the bearing to/from the beacon whilst watching the homing needle and compass allowed a 'silent' range/bearing fix to be taken without the student being aware, thus keeping track of position without affecting the student's situation awareness.
