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A Sad Waste of Life - Lynx Crash 2014 Kandahar.

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A Sad Waste of Life - Lynx Crash 2014 Kandahar.

Old 17th Jul 2015, 18:09
  #41 (permalink)  
MG
 
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haven't the last three Lynx fatals included personnel that didn't need to be on board? - Rotate Too late
The fact that passengers were on board isn't the point, after all, it's what SH/BH does. It's what you do with them and why.
The Basrah crash had pax on a famil, but entirely legitimately as it was the incoming boss. Pax rides are great for familiarisation of role, or just a little reward to those who deserve it. If conducted correctly, they are worth their weight in gold. However, if they lead to a bit of showing off, or they're allowed to do something that they're not trained to do (firing the crew-served weapon - now banned in JHC orders), then you're exposing them and the crew to unnecessary hazards.

Risk assessments are often sneered at as 'H&S gone mad' but they are there for a reason and they can save lives.
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 19:25
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MG - that's exactly my point!!! Re the Basra shoot down, fine I'm not trying to cast aspersions, and we'll chalk that down to being unlucky - once is unlucky....that's how the saying goes isn't it?
The utter tragedy of people climbing aboard for a "jolly" and ending up dead is beyond words. Remember the Catterick fallout? Just because it's Ops doesn't make it any less appalling.
Reacting to the operating of the CSW is in my opinion like putting a band aid on someone's finger when they've lost a leg! JHC take a bow!!
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 19:45
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JHC over-reacting? Surely not!
My point is that passenger flying is to be welcomed, but crews need to behave professionally and not play to an audience and do something that they ordinarily wouldn't. They should be more careful in the knowledge that they have precious cargo. I'm sure everyone on here who has carried passengers is guilty of the crime, I know I am, but that really must change.
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 20:36
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OK, so let's change the view on the topic slightly. I could argue, that the amount of hours flown in Herrick/Telic have over blown people's hours and so give the impression of more experience than they actually have ( experience in handling the AC and the decision making that accompanies that).
It could also be argued that because of utterly shambolic miss management of people from the CofC within the AAC that people are shuffling upwards before their ready to make up from the guys and gals that are pulling the yellow and black.....merely a suggestion you understand
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 21:13
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No argument with that statement, but it's always been so at various times. Force dilution is a well-known problem and one that authorisers/supervisors have always been warned against. The goes for small and unique units. Time and again, that has sadly been proven correct.
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 21:46
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Too right and yet we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes, why?
We owe it to those we take in the back to fly to the point of drop off not the scene of the accident.
Either way I give the floor to others far better understand the issue and maybe provide insightful comment that may cause somebody to think about their actions.
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 14:52
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I could argue, that the amount of hours flown in Herrick/Telic have over blown people's hours and so give the impression of more experience than they actually have
Exactly the same argument that was voiced - too late for some - in Norn Iron.
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 14:53
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crews need to behave professionally and not play to an audience and do something that they ordinarily wouldn't


The MoD have spent a fortune on this:-

Over the next three and a half years (commencing in September 2011), 18,000 aviation specialist personnel, working across the Royal Navy (RN), the British Army, the Royal Air Force (RAF), and Defence Equipment & Support (DE&S) will engage with the new Military Aviation Authority (MAA) in a significant aviation safety improvement investment programme worth £2.3 million.

It is underpinned by the core recognition that, to be effective and to secure sustainable results, safety management systems need to be underwritten by an integrated and highly engaged people-centric philosophy. The programme aims to build safety improvement through active safety leadership and positive safety culture development. This, in turn, will contribute to the prevention of aircraft accidents and loss of life, improved operational capability and more effective utilisation of resources.

It will provide a self-aware and sustainable safety system capable of demonstrating return on investment both in terms of operating and safety behaviour.
Not had much of a return on investment then.
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 17:40
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Yeah, but what does all that political speak actually mean? It's like a poli saying he's learnt lessons. After the headline is forgotten, it's always business as usual.
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 17:57
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And in the mean time, those that have learnt the lessons either by osmosis from the real old and bold or through the flying in different parts of the world....eg Kenya, Canada, Bosnia, Brunei and the like have gone out to ply their trade in civi street. As you say CM, poli speak but the measure of it is results....are we THAT good?
A typical military reaction is to tighten the rules, more supervision etc, how about we (we for not much longer!) retain those that have plenty of working life in them and allow them to pass on their knowledge in a more communicative manner rather than in some sh!tty FOB that is always open to interpretation anyway!!
Just saying....
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 18:07
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It seems little has changed over the years...
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