PTSD among drone operators
Fortissimo, I'm afraid I don't fundamentally agree with some of your opinions - the facts in my experience don't really bear them out. I am not saying you can build immunity to PTSD, but you can raise the threshold to trauma.
There are all types of psychological tests and stress tests that can predict peoples likely succeptibility to depression and other mental illnesses. What they can't do is predict or guarantee that any one person won't get PTSD or depression at some point - if the stressors are big enough even the toughest will crumble. I don't really see the drone operators in that category but neither will they be completely unaffected.
How do you reduce someone's succeptability to a stress reaction to a traumatic event? You make that event seem to be non-traumatic, even commonplace and acceptable. This goes on naturally all over the world, usually in third-world countries where death and hardship are a way of life and infant mortality rates are extremely high. We have all seen the reports of 14 year olds stabbing each other in London estates over trivial turf-wars or drug disputes; they've grown up in a brutal, uncaring culture with a completlely different set of values to most of society.
I am not proposing that the RAF recruit the dross of society, pyschos or people who have been brutalised through hardship; but they could do more to prepare these pilots so that their trauma threshold is raised and they are more mentally ready for what they are going to see. I admit I have difficulty in imagining a harder group than trained RAF pilots to be able to tailor a specifc course for, but I am sure a suitable package could be put together - there is enough expertise out there.
Some people will no doubt be traumatised by this sort of training and battle inocculation but for the majority it is perfectly possible to change their perspective to a meaningful degree. My experience in the Army (where this sort of training is far more prevalent it seems) has shown me that the right training does make a difference, certainly in terms of being able to continue doing the job. It is vital that this is done as group otherwise the effect on the individual can do more harm than good. A fair few Regiments such as the Paras do select and train along these lines, they look for and test for aggression, and mental and physical toughness. I would say that there is more of a problem with PTSD when a serviceman leaves the services and doesn't have the group support, or when the exposure to trauma goes on too long.
Someone mentioned the 'tour' lengths of drone pilots, and we have all heard about the '20 mission' rule for bomber pilots during WW2. The top brass should be thinking along these lines for the drone pilots and not just considering it to be more always less stressful than a deployment to theatre. Nevertheless they do need to select and prepare them better and not start to treat it as another day in the office or rely on their intelligence to somehow 'ignore' what they are seeing.
Flug
There are all types of psychological tests and stress tests that can predict peoples likely succeptibility to depression and other mental illnesses. What they can't do is predict or guarantee that any one person won't get PTSD or depression at some point - if the stressors are big enough even the toughest will crumble. I don't really see the drone operators in that category but neither will they be completely unaffected.
How do you reduce someone's succeptability to a stress reaction to a traumatic event? You make that event seem to be non-traumatic, even commonplace and acceptable. This goes on naturally all over the world, usually in third-world countries where death and hardship are a way of life and infant mortality rates are extremely high. We have all seen the reports of 14 year olds stabbing each other in London estates over trivial turf-wars or drug disputes; they've grown up in a brutal, uncaring culture with a completlely different set of values to most of society.
I am not proposing that the RAF recruit the dross of society, pyschos or people who have been brutalised through hardship; but they could do more to prepare these pilots so that their trauma threshold is raised and they are more mentally ready for what they are going to see. I admit I have difficulty in imagining a harder group than trained RAF pilots to be able to tailor a specifc course for, but I am sure a suitable package could be put together - there is enough expertise out there.
Some people will no doubt be traumatised by this sort of training and battle inocculation but for the majority it is perfectly possible to change their perspective to a meaningful degree. My experience in the Army (where this sort of training is far more prevalent it seems) has shown me that the right training does make a difference, certainly in terms of being able to continue doing the job. It is vital that this is done as group otherwise the effect on the individual can do more harm than good. A fair few Regiments such as the Paras do select and train along these lines, they look for and test for aggression, and mental and physical toughness. I would say that there is more of a problem with PTSD when a serviceman leaves the services and doesn't have the group support, or when the exposure to trauma goes on too long.
Someone mentioned the 'tour' lengths of drone pilots, and we have all heard about the '20 mission' rule for bomber pilots during WW2. The top brass should be thinking along these lines for the drone pilots and not just considering it to be more always less stressful than a deployment to theatre. Nevertheless they do need to select and prepare them better and not start to treat it as another day in the office or rely on their intelligence to somehow 'ignore' what they are seeing.
Flug
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First thanks to MtM for starting a very interesting debate.
As an ex infantryman, I have to say I tend towards the Beag's view of the world that by comparison a war sat in your chair with the main risk being a blistered finger from your controller or a burnt lip from hot coffee is infinitely preferable to having to deal with blood and snot at, often very, close range. Especially as there is no sound - believe me you will never forget someone screaming for their mummy.
That being said, I don't underestimate that playing god can really sh!t can your mental health. The issue is how to deal with it.
What the regimental structure of the army did was create very tight knit teams with close bonds formed over many years of shared service. Many the late night war story session in the bar was in fact a very good way of relieving the stress of active service. I firmly believe that to understand and help with what people suffer you need to share a similar experience.
EG
As an ex infantryman, I have to say I tend towards the Beag's view of the world that by comparison a war sat in your chair with the main risk being a blistered finger from your controller or a burnt lip from hot coffee is infinitely preferable to having to deal with blood and snot at, often very, close range. Especially as there is no sound - believe me you will never forget someone screaming for their mummy.
That being said, I don't underestimate that playing god can really sh!t can your mental health. The issue is how to deal with it.
What the regimental structure of the army did was create very tight knit teams with close bonds formed over many years of shared service. Many the late night war story session in the bar was in fact a very good way of relieving the stress of active service. I firmly believe that to understand and help with what people suffer you need to share a similar experience.
EG
First thanks to MtM for starting a very interesting debate.
As an ex infantryman, I have to say I tend towards the Beag's view of the world that by comparison a war sat in your chair with the main risk being a blistered finger from your controller or a burnt lip from hot coffee is infinitely preferable to having to deal with blood and snot at, often very, close range. Especially as there is no sound - believe me you will never forget someone screaming for their mummy.
EG
As an ex infantryman, I have to say I tend towards the Beag's view of the world that by comparison a war sat in your chair with the main risk being a blistered finger from your controller or a burnt lip from hot coffee is infinitely preferable to having to deal with blood and snot at, often very, close range. Especially as there is no sound - believe me you will never forget someone screaming for their mummy.
EG
Walking into an room, killing someone (who you may have watched 8 hours a day for a week or so), watching the aftermath, and then walking out of your room and getting in the car home to play with your kids, can create huge cognitive problems, because it's not easily described as "war" - just look at the comments in this thread.
In many ways, it would be better if they "deployed" to their "room" (albeit a much bigger environment) for 6 months, with the same people, allowing for a more 'natural' transition from "killing" to "normality".
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
ATG-In many ways, it would be better if they "deployed" to their "room" (albeit a much bigger environment) for 6 months, with the same people, allowing for a more 'natural' transition from "killing" to "normality".
Champagne anyone...?
I have good mates who are RPAS operators and from talking to them it just sounds like a really weird job and one that I certainly wouldn't like to do.
I wonder if the extra layer of stress/strangeness comes from knowing that you, the operator, are under absolutely no personal risk at all? Almost every other form of military combat comes with that element of personal risk but as an RPAS operator there is no kill-or-be-killed. Just the distant dispassionate dispatching of the enemy.
No matter what all you cold-steel-it-were-tuff-in-the-army-in-my-day might say, this is a whole new realm of warfare and if you employ intelligent and thoughtful people to do it then they're probably going to think about it intelligently. I know I'd struggle with a job that involved me killing people and where the only personal risk I faced was the possibility of an an RTA on the 95.....
I wonder if the extra layer of stress/strangeness comes from knowing that you, the operator, are under absolutely no personal risk at all? Almost every other form of military combat comes with that element of personal risk but as an RPAS operator there is no kill-or-be-killed. Just the distant dispassionate dispatching of the enemy.
No matter what all you cold-steel-it-were-tuff-in-the-army-in-my-day might say, this is a whole new realm of warfare and if you employ intelligent and thoughtful people to do it then they're probably going to think about it intelligently. I know I'd struggle with a job that involved me killing people and where the only personal risk I faced was the possibility of an an RTA on the 95.....
The personal risk element adds adrenaline. I would expect this enables the typical human to cope better with traumatic events. Also, my personal experience is that I was always too busy to be scared whilst flying.
Another element is the utility of the killings - is there a subconscious effect from the effectiveness, and for that matter the morality, of what is being carried out? I do not wish to debate the absolute morality and effectiveness, but those perceived by the operators, and those perceived by the public at large. Vietnam probably has some lessons here.
What You Have Is Probably Worse Than PTSD
I should think compartmentalisation as a means of handling the stress is somewhat difficult when you blow up an imam and his 3 kids, then see a family group dressed the same in the cereals aisle at Sainsbury's 3 hours later.
The PTSD doesn't surprise me in the least, and I have every sympathy for the operators. The politicians have started stupid wars, penny-pinched the Armed Forces to set up this semi-civilianised form of warfare with all its incongruities, and then lost the wars. It's a wonder everyone isn't crazy.
Another element is the utility of the killings - is there a subconscious effect from the effectiveness, and for that matter the morality, of what is being carried out? I do not wish to debate the absolute morality and effectiveness, but those perceived by the operators, and those perceived by the public at large. Vietnam probably has some lessons here.
What You Have Is Probably Worse Than PTSD
I should think compartmentalisation as a means of handling the stress is somewhat difficult when you blow up an imam and his 3 kids, then see a family group dressed the same in the cereals aisle at Sainsbury's 3 hours later.
The PTSD doesn't surprise me in the least, and I have every sympathy for the operators. The politicians have started stupid wars, penny-pinched the Armed Forces to set up this semi-civilianised form of warfare with all its incongruities, and then lost the wars. It's a wonder everyone isn't crazy.
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No matter what all you cold-steel-it-were-tuff-in-the-army-in-my-day might say, this is a whole new realm of warfare and if you employ intelligent and thoughtful people to do it then they're probably going to think about it intelligently. I know I'd struggle with a job that involved me killing people and where the only personal risk I faced was the possibility of an an RTA on the 95.....
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I hope that there is a quick turn around of operators! I do not know how many RPAS pilots and weapons operators there are, but I trust that they do not spend day after day, month after month, on endless operations without a suitable break. The manned squadrons rotate through operational theatres after a few months, but I trust that the breaks from operations will be built into 13/39 Sqn's tours. It will need a good number of trained RPAS crews to achieve this, but I wonder how many we actually have to carry out continual operations.
Not too bad when the RPAS is in "surveillance" mode, but if the intention is to use it more of an attack package in Iraq (& Syria?) then surely more trained crews will be needed. Perhaps this is the message behind OC XIII's comments?
Not too bad when the RPAS is in "surveillance" mode, but if the intention is to use it more of an attack package in Iraq (& Syria?) then surely more trained crews will be needed. Perhaps this is the message behind OC XIII's comments?
I trust that they do not spend day after day, month after month, on endless operations without a suitable break.
