Furniture into storage
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Furniture into storage
I'm helping a friend's family get ready for a big move oversea, where everything apart from clothes and personal effects are going into storage. The SP is away at the moment and I was present when the assessor visited to calculate the volumes. There were two surprises (and we've had two overseas storage moves in the past): the assessor was uncompromising - garden furniture will not be stored at the public expense, nor would be lawn mowers, strimmers etc. these have never been a problem in the past for us, however the paperwork from Agility confirms this. Anyone have a similar and recent experience of this? Any workarounds? My colleague has some very nice teak garden furniture, and as you can imagine, they are a bit peeved to be told, in effect, to get rid of it...
Not so much experience of trying to shift garden furniture, but experience of dealing with Agility ... If ever there was a name that is undeserved it's Agility's!
Deployed on ops last year, an odd one out the normal scope for Middle East OOAs, and as I had to fly civair was told to send my GSR, Kevlar etc through the movers out to my location. Rather than military movers as I had thought it would be, Agility had the contract for moving kit and as I was in an unusual digital appointment as a LNO my location didn't appear on their list other than for MFO moves by sea. I argued until I was blue in the face that I needed my body armour and helmet and that it was a matter of operational urgency and potentially a risk to life without it. All I got from them was 'you shouldn't have packed them separately if you needed them', this having been directed to send them via the 'system'. In the end, a semi-formal complaint to my unit QM got my kit pulled back from Agility and sent via DHL - arriving some 2+ months ahead of Agility's timelines.
All I can say is that Agility are not agile, they are complete jobsworths with little understanding of what we do and what our requirements are. I'd like to say they are the usual standard for the cheapest bidder for MOD contracts, but they aren't even that good. In short, they won't do anything at all that isn't written down in some policy or contract that you don't actually have sight of.
All I can unfortunately say is if Agility is handling this, either be prepared to store kit at private expense or try and find a very friendly QM somewhere who might be able to let your friends have access to a corner of a storage shed somewhere or even cheap rates on a disused garage, because Agility won't, in my experience budge. If they wouldn't shift on a RtL issue I'd be stunned if they had since actually started giving a sh1t about people now.
Utter utter jobsworths of the worst possible kind - good luck!
Deployed on ops last year, an odd one out the normal scope for Middle East OOAs, and as I had to fly civair was told to send my GSR, Kevlar etc through the movers out to my location. Rather than military movers as I had thought it would be, Agility had the contract for moving kit and as I was in an unusual digital appointment as a LNO my location didn't appear on their list other than for MFO moves by sea. I argued until I was blue in the face that I needed my body armour and helmet and that it was a matter of operational urgency and potentially a risk to life without it. All I got from them was 'you shouldn't have packed them separately if you needed them', this having been directed to send them via the 'system'. In the end, a semi-formal complaint to my unit QM got my kit pulled back from Agility and sent via DHL - arriving some 2+ months ahead of Agility's timelines.
All I can say is that Agility are not agile, they are complete jobsworths with little understanding of what we do and what our requirements are. I'd like to say they are the usual standard for the cheapest bidder for MOD contracts, but they aren't even that good. In short, they won't do anything at all that isn't written down in some policy or contract that you don't actually have sight of.
All I can unfortunately say is if Agility is handling this, either be prepared to store kit at private expense or try and find a very friendly QM somewhere who might be able to let your friends have access to a corner of a storage shed somewhere or even cheap rates on a disused garage, because Agility won't, in my experience budge. If they wouldn't shift on a RtL issue I'd be stunned if they had since actually started giving a sh1t about people now.
Utter utter jobsworths of the worst possible kind - good luck!
So, if Agility are a pain in the butt, bring it to the attention of the powers that be and write to your MP about it.
Your T&Cs don't require you to be disadvantaged by a move overseas and you are not required in natural justice to suffer a loss, consequent upon your military service obligations. What part of your remuneration package compensates you for disposing of personal property? I thought not - get stuck in. Michael Fallon is the name of the SofS for Defence - tell him you think his trading with Agility is bad for morale and will bring the services into disrepute!
Old Duffer - on the warpath!
Your T&Cs don't require you to be disadvantaged by a move overseas and you are not required in natural justice to suffer a loss, consequent upon your military service obligations. What part of your remuneration package compensates you for disposing of personal property? I thought not - get stuck in. Michael Fallon is the name of the SofS for Defence - tell him you think his trading with Agility is bad for morale and will bring the services into disrepute!
Old Duffer - on the warpath!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Petrol powered stuff would be problematical.
Teak furniture, treat with Danish Oil, put in dining room, table cloth, China service, job done.
Teak furniture, treat with Danish Oil, put in dining room, table cloth, China service, job done.
Old-Duffer,
My heart agrees with you. But any complaint would most likely be met with a response along the lines of, "they are acting in accordance with their contract."
Agility may be worthless jobsworths, but the real blame here rests with the MoD/Government idiots that allowed yet another important part of military life to be contracted out to the lowest bidder with no care for the poor sods that have to live with the results of their decision.
Remember this the next time you hear a politician tell you how much they value their servicemen (in a gender-neutral sense).
Pontius,
love your idea. Petrol powered items should not be a problem if they are drained and flushed. But Agility will probably argue that they cannot certify that the machinery is safe and I'm sure that their contract has clauses that support that.
Another bunch of arses that see defence contracts as wonderful milk cows with worthless, money-saving, not-going-to-be-my-problem blotter-jockeys signing it off.
How valued do you all feel now?
My heart agrees with you. But any complaint would most likely be met with a response along the lines of, "they are acting in accordance with their contract."
Agility may be worthless jobsworths, but the real blame here rests with the MoD/Government idiots that allowed yet another important part of military life to be contracted out to the lowest bidder with no care for the poor sods that have to live with the results of their decision.
Remember this the next time you hear a politician tell you how much they value their servicemen (in a gender-neutral sense).
Pontius,
love your idea. Petrol powered items should not be a problem if they are drained and flushed. But Agility will probably argue that they cannot certify that the machinery is safe and I'm sure that their contract has clauses that support that.
Another bunch of arses that see defence contracts as wonderful milk cows with worthless, money-saving, not-going-to-be-my-problem blotter-jockeys signing it off.
How valued do you all feel now?
It's not Agility that you should be venting your rage against, it's the incompetent MoD bureaucrat who wrote the contract. Or perhaps more accurately the lazy VSO who knew that this contract was about to be let and did nothing to ensure that it would be fit for purpose.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Had a contract issue with P&O about their air charter "it is the rule of the charter company". I pointed out that they were the contractee who had written the Statement of Requirement and not the contractor setting out terms.
Whenurhappy,
Your friend needs to go to the most senior person he or she can gain access to and get them to make a really big issue out of this. If no joy there, escalate it to HQ level. If no joy there plug into someone in MoD.
At some point someone should say, "why am I being bothered with this" and **** on the level below to make them sort it out.
Your friend needs to go to the most senior person he or she can gain access to and get them to make a really big issue out of this. If no joy there, escalate it to HQ level. If no joy there plug into someone in MoD.
At some point someone should say, "why am I being bothered with this" and **** on the level below to make them sort it out.
A Universal truism
'At some point someone should say, "why am I being bothered with this" and **** on the level below to make them sort it out.'
Courtney Mil's universal first law of command/management/governance, brilliant!
Courtney Mil's universal first law of command/management/governance, brilliant!
And your point is?
What else can a serviceman do?
The use of reason and cries of "fairness" gets you nowhere. Escalate.
I love the Courtney Mil's Universal Law.
What else can a serviceman do?
The use of reason and cries of "fairness" gets you nowhere. Escalate.
I love the Courtney Mil's Universal Law.
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And at some point of escalation, someone will say "There's no money. What do you you want, bombs or garden furniture?"
Thus conflating two entirely distinct issues to those that serve (or have served), but to anyone else, it's all on the defence budget. Perhaps there ought to be a personnel budget that is entirely separate from equipment, ordnance etc. Even outside the MOD.
Thus conflating two entirely distinct issues to those that serve (or have served), but to anyone else, it's all on the defence budget. Perhaps there ought to be a personnel budget that is entirely separate from equipment, ordnance etc. Even outside the MOD.
But also at some point of escalation, too many will say they want a job outside the Services.
Which is why the RAF and Army are under strength.
p.s. How's that Reserve Forces recruitment going?
A: Brilliant! - because we've moved the targets down below Actual. Leaving another 9,000 to find for the Army in the last 3 years (conveniently just after the current boss retires). Currently recruiting at 1,000 a year.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...PR_Apr2015.pdf (and follow the link on p19 to see that wonderfully Italian approach - "Whatever I hit, I call it the target!")
Which is why the RAF and Army are under strength.
p.s. How's that Reserve Forces recruitment going?
A: Brilliant! - because we've moved the targets down below Actual. Leaving another 9,000 to find for the Army in the last 3 years (conveniently just after the current boss retires). Currently recruiting at 1,000 a year.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...PR_Apr2015.pdf (and follow the link on p19 to see that wonderfully Italian approach - "Whatever I hit, I call it the target!")
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Rather ironic that this topic should rear its head just as one of the headlines on the defence intranet is about how great the deal is now for overseas tours.
At least now there are some extra visits to see kids left in schools in the UK - it might be possible to check in on your furniture if you've left it with someone responsible.
At least now there are some extra visits to see kids left in schools in the UK - it might be possible to check in on your furniture if you've left it with someone responsible.
Furniture into storage
Maybe I could offer the flip side to this argument?
I actually found Agility to be reasonably easy to deal with and very accommodating when we moved across the Atlantic. We're about to return so I hope they haven't changed too much.
We stored teak garden furniture and a petrol lawn mower amongst other things. This was managed through White and Company in Telford.
It's very easy to jump on the bandwagon and make these civvy companies out to be a boil on the arse of the MOD but sometimes they're not as bad as you think.
Now if we were talking about Modern Housing Solutions (or whatever they're called this week) I would agree wholeheartedly with any and all criticism.
I have no idea what has gone wrong in the case highlighted but it seems odd when compared to my own situation regarding very similar items.
BV
I actually found Agility to be reasonably easy to deal with and very accommodating when we moved across the Atlantic. We're about to return so I hope they haven't changed too much.
We stored teak garden furniture and a petrol lawn mower amongst other things. This was managed through White and Company in Telford.
It's very easy to jump on the bandwagon and make these civvy companies out to be a boil on the arse of the MOD but sometimes they're not as bad as you think.
Now if we were talking about Modern Housing Solutions (or whatever they're called this week) I would agree wholeheartedly with any and all criticism.
I have no idea what has gone wrong in the case highlighted but it seems odd when compared to my own situation regarding very similar items.
BV
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It's a reflection of overseas tours. EVERYTHING is cut to the bone! JSP 752 is revised on a regular basis and slowly pecks away at saving the MOD money. He's luck to have a storage element in his move, I didn't and the tiny property we had to accept meant virtually giving away lots of our property.
You will find it "is included in your LOA/Disturbance"............
You will find it "is included in your LOA/Disturbance"............
Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
It seems that the chickens are coming home to roost. From the BBC:
More at Quarter of personnel 'preparing to quit UK armed forces' - BBC News .
But don't despair:
But also at some point of escalation, too many will say they want a job outside the Services.
Which is why the RAF and Army are under strength.
Which is why the RAF and Army are under strength.
A quarter of those serving in the UK's armed forces want to quit, a Ministry of Defence survey (MoD) suggests.
The rate of personnel planning to leave, or who have given their notice, increased from 16% in 2011 to 25% now.
Those planning to stay in the service for as long as they could also fell from 41% in 2011 to 34% now.
The rate of personnel planning to leave, or who have given their notice, increased from 16% in 2011 to 25% now.
Those planning to stay in the service for as long as they could also fell from 41% in 2011 to 34% now.
But don't despair:
An MoD spokeswoman said: "We continually strive to ensure our people feel valued and that their contribution and sacrifice is recognised.
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Sniggering at this thread to be honest. In the hard faced first past the post world post-armed forces world we are now inhabiting, I strongly suggest you smash the teak garden furniture to pieces, get pissed up, have a bonfire with it in the garden and then piss all over it to put it out! You'll attract more interest, even sympathy.
What on earth does that mean?
Please try to make some sense.
It would seem, judging by the number of responses to the thread, that it already attracts a good deal of interest and sympathy.
Do you just come here to attack or do you have a real point to make?
Please try to make some sense.
It would seem, judging by the number of responses to the thread, that it already attracts a good deal of interest and sympathy.
Do you just come here to attack or do you have a real point to make?
The root of the problem is that someone has decided that what was previously taken care of, isn't.
The solution relies on being able to find out who that was and what the basis for their decision was.
An overseas posting means, if the Forces Covenant is worth anything, that either the Service stores ALL your stuff (subject to reasonableness, and pretty much everyone has garden furniture) or compensates you as part of the allowances package. Neither appears to be happening here.
However, it is now impossible to find out who made that decision, or how, in practically every sector of Government. This is not accidental. The contracting out of services very rarely provides economic benefit in the long run. Profits are made by trimming services, wages/benefits, or ignoring training. It does however allow Government to hide their decision-making, not least by waving the commercial-in-confidence flag. Government simply cuts the budget (or awards contracts that mean a complete service cannot be run) and lets a lesser level of the system take the blame. The purpose of agencies and consultants is to provide someone to blame other than the politician responsible.
Customer services and complaints departments are there to handle your problem, not solve it. The last thing anyone in Government wants is that you should be able to contact a decision-maker and ask a few pertinent questions. If there were any prospect of that, human nature would incline you to pursue the problem. Instead, you give up quickly because you are faced by a immense, monolithic, impenetrable wall of administration.
There is no effective accountability if you do not know who can be called to account.
The solution relies on being able to find out who that was and what the basis for their decision was.
An overseas posting means, if the Forces Covenant is worth anything, that either the Service stores ALL your stuff (subject to reasonableness, and pretty much everyone has garden furniture) or compensates you as part of the allowances package. Neither appears to be happening here.
However, it is now impossible to find out who made that decision, or how, in practically every sector of Government. This is not accidental. The contracting out of services very rarely provides economic benefit in the long run. Profits are made by trimming services, wages/benefits, or ignoring training. It does however allow Government to hide their decision-making, not least by waving the commercial-in-confidence flag. Government simply cuts the budget (or awards contracts that mean a complete service cannot be run) and lets a lesser level of the system take the blame. The purpose of agencies and consultants is to provide someone to blame other than the politician responsible.
Customer services and complaints departments are there to handle your problem, not solve it. The last thing anyone in Government wants is that you should be able to contact a decision-maker and ask a few pertinent questions. If there were any prospect of that, human nature would incline you to pursue the problem. Instead, you give up quickly because you are faced by a immense, monolithic, impenetrable wall of administration.
There is no effective accountability if you do not know who can be called to account.