BBMF Lanc Engine Fire
Thinking of the wide variation in attitudes to warfare it behoves to
spare more than a passing thought for those who fought with
the pity of war, the suffering, deeply impressed in their minds.
If responses are without compassion then nothing of lasting value
has been learned.
Take Wilfred Owen as a case in point. He was the greatest of the poets of the First World War. His death in battle a few days before the armistice
was an incalculable loss to the section of society that is concerned with the causes and the effects of war.
Owen found his voice in the trenches. His poems combine bleak realism with
indignation and compassion. For many he shaped their response and attitude to war.
spare more than a passing thought for those who fought with
the pity of war, the suffering, deeply impressed in their minds.
If responses are without compassion then nothing of lasting value
has been learned.
Take Wilfred Owen as a case in point. He was the greatest of the poets of the First World War. His death in battle a few days before the armistice
was an incalculable loss to the section of society that is concerned with the causes and the effects of war.
Owen found his voice in the trenches. His poems combine bleak realism with
indignation and compassion. For many he shaped their response and attitude to war.
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My sources tell me that the whole wiring loom for the wing will have to be replaced. Sounds like a long downtime but a huge well done to the crew for getting her and themselves down safely.
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That wouldn't surprise me, dependant on where it has disconnect plugs. I did wonder about the engine control runs too.
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I did wonder about the engine control runs too.
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Looking at pictures of the engine bearers showing the heat they have had on them, I would say they are probably scrap, I don't know if the BBMF hold such as spares but I believe Just Jane after NDT'ing some they aquired from Canada were looking at having to produce new items, that in itself I imagine will bring up its own problems with Material specs etc....
And that is just one component in a long list of possible damaged parts.
If I was a betting man and allowing for the possible downtime, I would say the sensible option would be to bring the planned 2016 rebuild forward, break it into sections, (they were probably going to have to do that for the inspection anyway) and truck it down to Duxford, you will then be able to kill two birds with one stone, you can progress the repair / overhaul of the aircraft, whille you source / sort the parts needed.. the fly in the ointment for that though is probably hangarage, as I believe they were going to build one to do the overhaul in.
Judging by these pics off twitter it had breached the lower firewall and one image online I have seen shows two trails of white smoke from both engines, so one wonders if it was drawn into the leading edge by the airflow from the inner engine.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/bbmf
And that is just one component in a long list of possible damaged parts.
If I was a betting man and allowing for the possible downtime, I would say the sensible option would be to bring the planned 2016 rebuild forward, break it into sections, (they were probably going to have to do that for the inspection anyway) and truck it down to Duxford, you will then be able to kill two birds with one stone, you can progress the repair / overhaul of the aircraft, whille you source / sort the parts needed.. the fly in the ointment for that though is probably hangarage, as I believe they were going to build one to do the overhaul in.
Judging by these pics off twitter it had breached the lower firewall and one image online I have seen shows two trails of white smoke from both engines, so one wonders if it was drawn into the leading edge by the airflow from the inner engine.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/bbmf
Last edited by NutLoose; 14th May 2015 at 15:45.
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It could hev been worse......
I am greatly relieved that this engine problem and emergency landing happened so near to base and that a suitable runway with fire crews were available. (And appears to have been well handled by the crew.......)
It could have been so much worse had an emergency landing not been possible very quickly and I shudder to think what would have been the outcome had V-RA (the Canadian Lanc) had a similar experience in transit to the UK last year.
The crew's only option then would have been to ditch or bail out.
I hope the damage is not going to be either too costly or too long to repair and hope to see her flying in 2016.
MB
It could have been so much worse had an emergency landing not been possible very quickly and I shudder to think what would have been the outcome had V-RA (the Canadian Lanc) had a similar experience in transit to the UK last year.
The crew's only option then would have been to ditch or bail out.
I hope the damage is not going to be either too costly or too long to repair and hope to see her flying in 2016.
MB
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
IIRC, we carried parachutes but didn't fly high enough for them to be effective.
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I wonder if they now have the use of the quick opening ones, I know there was a rush of operators to buy them after the successful bailing out of Big Beautiful Doll at Duxford, that was 500 foot with opening about 250!!!.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...-vintage-plane
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...-vintage-plane
Last edited by NutLoose; 14th May 2015 at 16:01.
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Looking at pictures of the engine bearers showing the heat they have had on them, I would say they are probably scrap
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Jack Currie
In my late teens and early twenties I had the privilege of serving Jack Currie (and friends) his regular pints of IPA, and the occasional Guinness, in The George Hotel (Easingwold)...
His tales, regaled first hand were even more inspiring even than when read from the books - several of which I have, signed of course!
His tales, regaled first hand were even more inspiring even than when read from the books - several of which I have, signed of course!
Nutloose I would imagine Strong Squadron Parachute were uppermost on the agenda after BBDs crash. Possible Integration issues and an OEM change in the published lowest safe operating height of the current chute probably meant no changes for the fighters, as realistically they could zoom climb in most instance's. As for the Lanc, at the time,I believe the chutes were dummy packs, although this may well have changed with MAA involvement. Probably.
Last edited by Stitchbitch; 15th May 2015 at 07:20.
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The Bearers are steel and may need a bit of heat treatment.
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Hopefully, as the Vulcan is grounded after this season, it would be nice if the supporters that have spent millions of there hard earned money on 558 will transfer their support to another worthy Avro renovation - Just Jane !
Perhaps we would be seeing 2 Lancasters flying together again, for longer than only 8 years.
Perhaps we would be seeing 2 Lancasters flying together again, for longer than only 8 years.
Around 1980 ish, I was the gang boss on a Field Repair Squadron (successor to 71 MU) team who undertook the refurbishment of the wings on PA474. It was a major task and gave me 50 or more technicians and the full support of Abingdons Station workshops. I believe that Abingdon workshops in those days were one of very few allowed to manufacture replacement primary structure for aircraft repair. It took 6 months, and, the wings were stripped to the bare spars, with a complete replacement of each removed part manufactured, on site at Abingdon by station workshops. It was decreed during the repair that all removed items, once duplicated, would be placed in a "cage", and would be sliced up, mounted and sold as souvineers at future B of B displays. I know for fact that certain Canberra bits ended up in the mix. The point is, PA474 has wings, circa 1980, not 1944. Engines and wiring looms are replaceable, the airframe is obviously replaceable. What matters is what that aircraft represents, and that's our respect for a very brave generation of people who, nightly, put their lives on the line to maintain our freedoms and rights when threatened by the Nazi omnipresence. It's a shame that most of what they fought for is being given away by modern politicians that have no conception of service to the country. Whatever the cost, PA474 should be repaired and restored to airworthiness, if only to reconfirm our gratitude to those that gave so much for us. Sorry about the rant, I truly believe the aircraft represents an enormous effort by men for our common good.
Smudge
Smudge
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So it's your fault.......
Totally agree 100%, the only thing it's going to take is time and sadly money.
Totally agree 100%, the only thing it's going to take is time and sadly money.
Agree with you again Nutty, I wonder if there's the will to pay for the recovery cost? I truly hope so. Certainly, as with the wings, Britain still has the capability to replace damaged structure with "new build" even if the RAF don't. One other interesting fact about PA474. Whilst doing the job on the wings I was informed by my BBMF contact, one Pete Rushen, that the undercarriage was not the original Lancaster one, but a Lincoln undercart. So, with a blend of Merlins across the wing, a mainplane built in the the 1980s and an undercarriage from a later, version. Replacing damaged components should not bother anyone. I'm sure British engineering industry could swing behind any appeal for help, and PA474 can be restored to flying fettle in short order.
Smudge
Smudge
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The warbird industry did rebuilt LF363 after its fire at Wittering so I'm sure its not beyond all hope.
Just so long as they don't ************ to pay for it
V1
Just so long as they don't ************ to pay for it
V1
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Smuj,
It's not just the wings which are relatively recent. Some time ago, I was involved with a task at DSDA Ashchurch to identify and value shed loads of equipment ( most of it ancient ) which had been consolidated from various storage depots, one of which was RAF Stafford. Among the items were two virtually brand new jigs which had been manufactured in the early 80's for the fabrication of Lancaster tail assemblies.
Due to the effect of RAB, to avoid them being scrapped, arrangements were made to have them moved to RAF Coningsby.
Must try to find the pics taken at the time.
It's not just the wings which are relatively recent. Some time ago, I was involved with a task at DSDA Ashchurch to identify and value shed loads of equipment ( most of it ancient ) which had been consolidated from various storage depots, one of which was RAF Stafford. Among the items were two virtually brand new jigs which had been manufactured in the early 80's for the fabrication of Lancaster tail assemblies.
Due to the effect of RAB, to avoid them being scrapped, arrangements were made to have them moved to RAF Coningsby.
Must try to find the pics taken at the time.
Cpt Pugwash,
Sir, fully agree with your post and thank goodness that the transfer was made to the correct unit. A slight divergence if I may. I was posted to RAF Waddington, to head up the change from Vulcan to Nimrod AEW. No, I wasn't the station Ccommander, just a lowly Sgt rigger, given the Hydraulic Bay as his prize. We received the ubiquitous Mk1 hydraulic rig, suitably primed with OF4 oil, not OM15. On opening the rear stowages on the rig I found trays of adapters, wrapped in grease and waxed paper, labelled Halifax, Mosquito, Stirling and Lancaster. God knows how old that hydraulic rig was, but it's link to aircraft that had historical significance was certainly clear. The Nimrod AEW story is not for this thread, but our Mk1 Static Hydraulic test rig certainly deserves a mention.
Smudge
Sir, fully agree with your post and thank goodness that the transfer was made to the correct unit. A slight divergence if I may. I was posted to RAF Waddington, to head up the change from Vulcan to Nimrod AEW. No, I wasn't the station Ccommander, just a lowly Sgt rigger, given the Hydraulic Bay as his prize. We received the ubiquitous Mk1 hydraulic rig, suitably primed with OF4 oil, not OM15. On opening the rear stowages on the rig I found trays of adapters, wrapped in grease and waxed paper, labelled Halifax, Mosquito, Stirling and Lancaster. God knows how old that hydraulic rig was, but it's link to aircraft that had historical significance was certainly clear. The Nimrod AEW story is not for this thread, but our Mk1 Static Hydraulic test rig certainly deserves a mention.
Smudge
