CYPRUS LOA
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Money isn't everything - 30 years ago this very weekend, I first got to know my girl down at a windswept Ladies Mile. Some have seen the pictures - enough said about my sad demise the better.
Whenurhappy makes a good point about spousal/partner disadvantage - the X Factor allowance for that, and other factors, crept up to just 14.5% in the latest AFPRB report - wholly inadequate. In terms of the attraction of an overseas posting, it's interesting to note that PWC skims lightly over the financial 'benefits' when comparing military with civilian remuneration too.
Al Rush | Comparing remuneration packages between military and civilian sectors
Going off on a tangent, according to PWC, the military pension benefit is worth 16% and 36% for Squadron Leaders and Wing Commanders respectively. Worth the drop in LOA?
Whenurhappy makes a good point about spousal/partner disadvantage - the X Factor allowance for that, and other factors, crept up to just 14.5% in the latest AFPRB report - wholly inadequate. In terms of the attraction of an overseas posting, it's interesting to note that PWC skims lightly over the financial 'benefits' when comparing military with civilian remuneration too.
Al Rush | Comparing remuneration packages between military and civilian sectors
Going off on a tangent, according to PWC, the military pension benefit is worth 16% and 36% for Squadron Leaders and Wing Commanders respectively. Worth the drop in LOA?
The RAF doesn't unilaterally adjust allowances. For the better part of 10 years allowances have been the same across the three Services. The Army, naturally, has the biggest input to changes (and that is still predicated on an 18 year old single soldier posted to Germany for the first time).
Last edited by Whenurhappy; 8th Apr 2015 at 08:43.
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Just been chatting to a JR about this. His LOA has gone from a fiver a day to 39p. Admittedly he didn't take an overseas tour to line his pockets, but the so-called adjustment to the FFR in no way justifies this slashing of LOA. People will vote with their feet and posts will be gapped (again).
a far cry from the 70's when my old man was a cpl at Kolsas (Norway). His LOA exceeded his daily pay! Plus access to (rationed) duty free booze - happy days apparently 
Makes you wonder what Embassy staff get in the way of LOA equivalent?
Makes you wonder what Embassy staff get in the way of LOA equivalent?
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Just seen this and must say I am thoroughly pee'd off. I wrote in a thread a few year back that I accepted an overseas post and a slight financial loss to my family and was happy with this as it was an opportunity. With the LOA in Germany now 25% of what it was I will get about £90 a month. Considering our weekly food shop is more here than England and our insurance (car and home) costs us about £250 a month as opposed to £100 in UK, we are now seriously out of pocket. I can't see why anyone would bother with such losses. The only positive is childcare, €200 a month full time per child which I guess more than makes up for it in our case but not in many peoples.
With this and more possible redundancies in the future the government can go
, they won't get my vote.
With this and more possible redundancies in the future the government can go
, they won't get my vote.
Faarn,
You have my deep sympathy as exactly the same happened to us in our previous overseas posting - cut from £45 pd to about £8 in a very short timeframe. Factor in loss of spousal earnings, higher mobile phone, internet, insurance and other costs, the financial equation doesn't add up. However, we had a great time, lived in an absolutely stunning part of the world and our kids became uber-brat skiers.
In my current appointment, we are on different TACOS and get a different package - yes, it is a lot more generous, but it just brings us up to what we were on in UK with my wife working in a good - but low paid - job. Again, a great experience, but loss of career time again for my wife.
You have my deep sympathy as exactly the same happened to us in our previous overseas posting - cut from £45 pd to about £8 in a very short timeframe. Factor in loss of spousal earnings, higher mobile phone, internet, insurance and other costs, the financial equation doesn't add up. However, we had a great time, lived in an absolutely stunning part of the world and our kids became uber-brat skiers.
In my current appointment, we are on different TACOS and get a different package - yes, it is a lot more generous, but it just brings us up to what we were on in UK with my wife working in a good - but low paid - job. Again, a great experience, but loss of career time again for my wife.
faarn - i would think the responsibility for the LOA cuts lies in MoD rather than Govt. Up to MoD how they slice the diminishing pie, guess they see LOA as an easy target. I'm sure they must have some evidence to back-up the cuts....(or maybe they are just working on the premise "overseas, sound like a jolly to me, why would they need extra cash?" 
)
As the AFPRB don't cover allowances (unless their remit has changed?), I suspect the only factor that would affect LOA amounts would be repeated bending of the 3-stars' ears by the manning staff about gapped posts? Very hard to quantify the returns on the increased costs of a service person on overseas tour, especially when we no longer have the 'spare' capacity. (not my view - just guessing at the all-powerful bean-counters assessment).
) As the AFPRB don't cover allowances (unless their remit has changed?), I suspect the only factor that would affect LOA amounts would be repeated bending of the 3-stars' ears by the manning staff about gapped posts? Very hard to quantify the returns on the increased costs of a service person on overseas tour, especially when we no longer have the 'spare' capacity. (not my view - just guessing at the all-powerful bean-counters assessment).
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i would think the responsibility for the LOA cuts lies in MoD rather than Govt. Up to MoD how they slice the diminishing pie, guess they see LOA as an easy target. I'm sure they must have some evidence to back-up the cuts....
As far as the huge reduction in LOA this is apparently due to a number of factors:
1. The FRR has increased by 10% this month.
2. The improved offer to those serving overseas. More money for disturbance expenses (about £400 more but only one way); greater flexibility for travel on assignment (you can now claim subsistence during relocation travel); and twice as many school children’s visits each year (6 instead of 3).
Not sure how any of that can justify such a big drop!
If I were to get an opportunity in the future to go overseas I would certainly not dismiss it but would most likely do it unaccompanied. I have enjoyed my 3 years in Germany so no regrets.
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W + F
My experience of being overseas seems pretty similar to yours. Not my first time and overall my family have been given the gift of experiencing cultures and events that give them a truly international outlook. Up to recently I would not have missed it for the world. Enduring friendships across many nations, better weather, great locations, fascinating work, and an enormous photobook of happy memories. I would add that looking back at the UK from living Overseas gives you a whole different perspective on the UK, and not necessarily a bad one.
But there are limits to this. For me it increasingly makes absolutely no financial sense at all. In particular, the system seems to be perpetually stuck in the 1950s were they believe the spouse dutifully gives up his/her job and the children happily wave at their freinds as they disappear to follow the flag. Also that we all live in FMQs and march out one day in the UK, have a jolly ferry trip, then in to our shiny exciting overseas pad like on some Pathe newsreel. The reality is that the effect on the spouse in terms of loss of spousal career and income is conveniently ignored. And as a home owner (encouraged by the military) you either pay for two houses simultaneously or put yourself at the mercy of a tenant which from bitter experience are not all nice people and don’t always pay or look after your house.
Overall, my opinion is instead of tinkering with LOA and other allowances as they have just done, the whole overseas package (not just allowances) needs ripping apart and building from fresh by someone who is not institutionalised in the current system and actually lives in the 21st Century.
My experience of being overseas seems pretty similar to yours. Not my first time and overall my family have been given the gift of experiencing cultures and events that give them a truly international outlook. Up to recently I would not have missed it for the world. Enduring friendships across many nations, better weather, great locations, fascinating work, and an enormous photobook of happy memories. I would add that looking back at the UK from living Overseas gives you a whole different perspective on the UK, and not necessarily a bad one.
But there are limits to this. For me it increasingly makes absolutely no financial sense at all. In particular, the system seems to be perpetually stuck in the 1950s were they believe the spouse dutifully gives up his/her job and the children happily wave at their freinds as they disappear to follow the flag. Also that we all live in FMQs and march out one day in the UK, have a jolly ferry trip, then in to our shiny exciting overseas pad like on some Pathe newsreel. The reality is that the effect on the spouse in terms of loss of spousal career and income is conveniently ignored. And as a home owner (encouraged by the military) you either pay for two houses simultaneously or put yourself at the mercy of a tenant which from bitter experience are not all nice people and don’t always pay or look after your house.
Overall, my opinion is instead of tinkering with LOA and other allowances as they have just done, the whole overseas package (not just allowances) needs ripping apart and building from fresh by someone who is not institutionalised in the current system and actually lives in the 21st Century.
Last edited by Brewers Droop; 9th Apr 2015 at 13:02.
B-D (I hope note),
I could not have written a better summary myself. It's the little things that have pissed us off: the 'march out' from SFA; the arcane rules on accommodation in transit, and God forbid if you want to travel by car rather than by the cheapest, nastiest budget airline that DTMO can find (which is used to calculate the equivalent amount if you decide to drive across Europe). The 'if your wife doesn't submit a Medical form we won't send you your tickets', the 'well, you were issued warm weather uniform in 1990 - we can't possibly issue you new kit now', the used of the term 'dependent', the inability to be able to take long-term partners abroad....we are stuck (as you say) in some 1950s Pathe newsreel; two fibre-board suitcases, stepping off the Britannia into bright sunshine, to be met by the AMO and a wheezy Bedford Bus.
I could not have written a better summary myself. It's the little things that have pissed us off: the 'march out' from SFA; the arcane rules on accommodation in transit, and God forbid if you want to travel by car rather than by the cheapest, nastiest budget airline that DTMO can find (which is used to calculate the equivalent amount if you decide to drive across Europe). The 'if your wife doesn't submit a Medical form we won't send you your tickets', the 'well, you were issued warm weather uniform in 1990 - we can't possibly issue you new kit now', the used of the term 'dependent', the inability to be able to take long-term partners abroad....we are stuck (as you say) in some 1950s Pathe newsreel; two fibre-board suitcases, stepping off the Britannia into bright sunshine, to be met by the AMO and a wheezy Bedford Bus.
W + F
My experience of being overseas seems pretty similar to yours. Not my first time and overall my family have been given the gift of experiencing cultures and events that give them a truly international outlook. Up to recently I would not have missed it for the world. Enduring friendships across many nations, better weather, great locations, fascinating work, and an enormous photobook of happy memories. I would add that looking back at the UK from living Overseas gives you a whole different perspective on the UK, and not necessarily a bad one.
But there are limits to this. For me it increasingly makes absolutely no financial sense at all. In particular, the system seems to be perpetually stuck in the 1950s were they believe the spouse dutifully gives up his/her job and the children happily wave at their freinds as they disappear to follow the flag. Also that we all live in FMQs and march out one day in the UK, have a jolly ferry trip, then in to our shiny exciting overseas pad like on some Pathe newsreel. The reality is that the effect on the spouse in terms of loss of spousal career and income is conveniently ignored. And as a home owner (encouraged by the military) you either pay for two houses simultaneously or put yourself at the mercy of a tenant which from bitter experience are not all nice people and don’t always pay or look after your house.
Overall, my opinion is instead of tinkering with LOA and other allowances as they have just done, the whole overseas package (not just allowances) needs ripping apart and building from fresh by someone who is not institutionalised in the current system and actually lives in the 21st Century.
My experience of being overseas seems pretty similar to yours. Not my first time and overall my family have been given the gift of experiencing cultures and events that give them a truly international outlook. Up to recently I would not have missed it for the world. Enduring friendships across many nations, better weather, great locations, fascinating work, and an enormous photobook of happy memories. I would add that looking back at the UK from living Overseas gives you a whole different perspective on the UK, and not necessarily a bad one.
But there are limits to this. For me it increasingly makes absolutely no financial sense at all. In particular, the system seems to be perpetually stuck in the 1950s were they believe the spouse dutifully gives up his/her job and the children happily wave at their freinds as they disappear to follow the flag. Also that we all live in FMQs and march out one day in the UK, have a jolly ferry trip, then in to our shiny exciting overseas pad like on some Pathe newsreel. The reality is that the effect on the spouse in terms of loss of spousal career and income is conveniently ignored. And as a home owner (encouraged by the military) you either pay for two houses simultaneously or put yourself at the mercy of a tenant which from bitter experience are not all nice people and don’t always pay or look after your house.
Overall, my opinion is instead of tinkering with LOA and other allowances as they have just done, the whole overseas package (not just allowances) needs ripping apart and building from fresh by someone who is not institutionalised in the current system and actually lives in the 21st Century.
Gentleman Aviator
'well, you were issued warm weather uniform in 1990 - we can't possibly issue you new kit now',
In 2002, I was posted to a "semi-representational" post in a hot country, so put in for a No 6 uniform.
No, they said, you'd been issued with the allowance and/or kit when you were posted to that part of the World before.
Yes, I said, but:
a. That was in 1970 - 32 years previously!
b. The colour had since changed from KD to Stone Grey.
c. In 1970 I was posted to the (then Persian) Gulf, where we didn't wear No6s, just Bush Jackets.
Took 2-star intervention
to get me the kit issued on loan with the greatest reluctance. Strangest thing was, I got to keep the trousers and shirts 
, cos they were "next to the skin and can't be re-issued" but had to give back the natty No 6 tunic. 
I've kept the signals (remember them?) somewhere, it's such an unbelievable story......
As I mentioned earlier, I wonder what the civil service / FCO Embassy Staff package is like in comparison? Don't forget to factor in the lack of Mrs LOA-claimants ability to keep her NI contributions going while unable to work overseas. Will affect her/your future state pension. I think at one time it could be topped up from own funds but not sure that is still an option? All in all, a sorry state of affairs.
Forces allowances have always been a subject for debate.
I still recall my posting to Cyprus in the 60s. Being a young bachelor pilot I was not interested in money (how times change), but when I started dating a girl whose father was a UK civil servant I was amazed at what allowances he got, He made a fat profit out of his tour in Cyprus. His rationale was that he was a volunteer to go to Cyprus, we were just servicemen who had to do as we were told.
I still recall my posting to Cyprus in the 60s. Being a young bachelor pilot I was not interested in money (how times change), but when I started dating a girl whose father was a UK civil servant I was amazed at what allowances he got, He made a fat profit out of his tour in Cyprus. His rationale was that he was a volunteer to go to Cyprus, we were just servicemen who had to do as we were told.
I, too, would like to endorse BD's post. Very well said.
When I first saw the headline for this thread I thought, "here we go, whining about allowances." I hereby apologise for even thinking that. Once again, someone is seriously screwing people over. All the changes in the last 40 years - just the ones I'm aware of in my time - have always ended up with the same result. It's the folk out there doing the job that end up bearing the pain and disadvantage.
It's all so sad that the "powers that be" seem to value their people so little.
When I first saw the headline for this thread I thought, "here we go, whining about allowances." I hereby apologise for even thinking that. Once again, someone is seriously screwing people over. All the changes in the last 40 years - just the ones I'm aware of in my time - have always ended up with the same result. It's the folk out there doing the job that end up bearing the pain and disadvantage.
It's all so sad that the "powers that be" seem to value their people so little.
