23 DFCs

[Tankertrashnav]

. I do think that the RN is extremely reluctant to award medals rightly or wrongly.

Historically the navy has been far more sparing in dishing out gongs than the other two services. In WW2, for example, fewer than 5,000 Distinguished Service Crosses were awarded to naval officers, in comparison with almost 22,000 DFCs. Things were more equal on the "lower deck", but here it was common practice for a ship to be awarded a number of DSMs, and these would be allocated by drawing lots, success in an action seen very much as a combined effort.

Maybe the members of an aircraft's crew should draw straws for the DFC - but somehow I can't see this happening!

[MPN11]

Historically the navy has been far more sparing in dishing out gongs than the other two services. In WW2, for example, fewer than 5,000 Distinguished Service Crosses were awarded to naval officers, in comparison with almost 22,000 DFCs.

i have no wish to generate further acrimonious debate, but could that RN/RAF disparity be explained by the fact that RAF aircrew were engaged in combat on a daily basis, often in large numbers, whereas RN ships operated in smaller numbers and [surely?] were engaged in surface actions far less frequently?

[Tankertrashnav]

Up to a point - but don't forget the submarines who were pretty busy throughout - plenty of scope for gallantry there I'd have thought.

But your point about the RAF is well taken - particularly in the case of Bomber Command who were, numerically speaking, at the top of the list of DFC/DFM recipients by a long way.

[Tourist]

MPN11

The UK highest chance of death in WW2 was at sea on the convoys I believe. Admittedly that was the Merchant Marine, but the RN was there too, taking heavy hits. Remember that when a ship goes down the casualties are a lot worse.

British vessels lost at sea in World War 2 - major warships

It is easy to forget the Pacific war also if your attention is mostly on the RAF.


Incidentally, I also believe that the chances of death in the RAF were worst on Coastal Command, then Fighter, with Bomber command the safest....

[MPN11]

Tourist, I hear what you say. Many good men lost in all types of service, and in all theatres.

However, as the debate is about the award of gallantry medals, I would just note that it's difficult to earn a gallantry award when your ship is torpedoed or bombed or hits a mine ... those events tend to be a bit one-sided, don't they?


(That's an horrendous list, isn't it!)

[Tourist]

Yes, I would agree. It is difficult to do anything but fight when you are essentially going where the captain says.

St Nazaire raid and the like obviously excepted and they certainly got some gongs for that. Personally I'd have given all 600 odd of them a medal. Brave and Barking!

St Nazaire Raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[KG86]

The DFC recipients were not awarded the medals because they came under fire, they were mostly awarded because they deliberately flew into fire, to complete their mission, or to pick up the grievously injured soldier.


Flying a Chinook into these circumstances equates to driving a single-decker bus into no-mans-land in WW1. It becomes a bullet (and RPG) magnet.


Respect!

[Thomas coupling]

Respect indeed...but lest not forget that for every person/unit awarded a gong, there goes 'virtually' every other human being on the front line....it just wasn't their 'moment' in history.
Most of us who are/were in the military and expected to go front line, knew the score and did our best. ALL of them deserve a medal in some shape or form for they are all brave people putting themselves in harm's way to better the chances of a safer future back home. No complaints, no unions, no compunction.

Next war please...............................................

[chinook240]

"but getting shot at and then flying home isn't necessarily what I (and possibly a few of my generation) would consider deserving of such a high award."

I have read these words over and over and I'm amazed by the naivety of someone who was in the "military" but clearly has no idea of what happened over there. The loss of a Chinook, particularly with its precious cargo, would have been a game changer and it is due to the tactical and flying skills of the crews that this never happened.

[Old-Duffer]

In reading the citations published and the blurb that comes with it, in many cases it is a deliberate and calculated decision to place oneself (and crew and cab) in harm's way. For whatever reason the guys and gals did that, often to bring aid to others who were at or close to death's door.

This is also a feature of many SAR citations but without the 'being shot at' bit.

The accounts we have read and heard about over recent years is probably in part responsible for a remarkable change in attitude amongst young people seeking to fly in the RAF. For many years in my youth and early part of service, young men (it was only boys in those days) wanted to be fighter pilots and I need not dwell further on that. Now, a very significant number of ATC cadets with whom I come in to contact, want to go rotary wing because they see that's where their skills will be most wanted/used. It is also perhaps interesting to see that the fast jet fraternity are less well represented around the tables of power than was once the case!

Ladies and gentlemen, let's stop this bickering re who should get a gong and did they really earn it. Those awards were well earned and richly deserved recognition. What does surprise me (and I've bitched about this elsewhere) is the awards system works against those in the back and - Oh By The Way, the odd DSO for leadership wouldn't have gone amiss.

Old Duffer

[ShyTorque]

O-D, Well said!

[Tankertrashnav]

Well said, O-D.

[teeteringhead]

O-D
lflkf ;lf;el ;ld;