NEM Alignment
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NEM Alignment
It is interesting that the PA NEM offers of alignment are now on the table and I have been given 28 days to decide whether to accept or not.
Is 28 days enough time for such a decision? What are the perceived benefits to remaining in the RAF for another 5 years, as opposed to the alternative where one could draw their pension and perhaps find gainful employment elsewhere (Babcock, MFTS etc) apart from the obvious one of a damn good wage? Is remaining in the easy option? What are your fellow thoughts on this offer? Is it better to leave at 55, receive your 75/05 pension, and then if remaining in the RAF is for you, accept an FTRS role on the new pension scheme?
Decision time!
Is 28 days enough time for such a decision? What are the perceived benefits to remaining in the RAF for another 5 years, as opposed to the alternative where one could draw their pension and perhaps find gainful employment elsewhere (Babcock, MFTS etc) apart from the obvious one of a damn good wage? Is remaining in the easy option? What are your fellow thoughts on this offer? Is it better to leave at 55, receive your 75/05 pension, and then if remaining in the RAF is for you, accept an FTRS role on the new pension scheme?
Decision time!
We're all in different positions and circumstances so it's difficult but I would like to see some sort of confirmation of PA pay scale beyond 55. ATM, I am on Level 34 PA so would next years increment be the last I would receive so that my pay would effectively be cut for the next 4 years if I sign on?
Otherwise, having served over 30 years, I retain my 6-month PVR option (subject to service contingencies as ever), I remain on AFPS 05 and my pension increases. The loss of my immediate pension payment is an issue as we had planned to use that but otherwise I am struggling to see a downside, assuming I am happy to continue in full-time service.
The thought of an ADC job is enticing though (that's the 180 days per year job, not the bag carrier one) if I could persuade them to go for it.
Otherwise, having served over 30 years, I retain my 6-month PVR option (subject to service contingencies as ever), I remain on AFPS 05 and my pension increases. The loss of my immediate pension payment is an issue as we had planned to use that but otherwise I am struggling to see a downside, assuming I am happy to continue in full-time service.
The thought of an ADC job is enticing though (that's the 180 days per year job, not the bag carrier one) if I could persuade them to go for it.
Last edited by just another jocky; 2nd Mar 2015 at 16:56. Reason: added "am"
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Prescient. Let's assume a senior officer is in their mid 50s, on AFPS75 and has been offered extended terms to age 60. Bearing in mind that accruals on AFPS75 stop at age 55 or 34 years pensionable service and that transfer onto AFPS15 isn't the default setting if you have fewer than 10 years to push, does anyone know what happens?
The danger is, unless checked or opted out of, one's lifetime allowance may get breached if you slip onto 15 and continue to grow benefits for a further 5 years. The same applies to other ranks too, except it's 37 years service of course. The danger of breaching the lifetime allowance is less, but does anyone know what the drill is going to be?
The danger is, unless checked or opted out of, one's lifetime allowance may get breached if you slip onto 15 and continue to grow benefits for a further 5 years. The same applies to other ranks too, except it's 37 years service of course. The danger of breaching the lifetime allowance is less, but does anyone know what the drill is going to be?
Jambo,
The decision you will ultimately make is a personal one, all you can do (as indeed you are trying to) is gather as much information as possible and make your own choice.
However, when you describe one reason for staying in as "the obvious one of a damn good wage" consider the following. I recently retired at 55 on AFPS05, and my immediate pension net income was approx. 62% of my RAF net income just prior to retirement. In other words, I only lost 38% of income by retiring! Therefore, assuming broadly similar figures for yourself, one could argue that by staying in you are actually doing so for approx. one third of your current wage. You are working all those hours to only be better off, in comparison to retirement, by about one third of your net salary. As one illustration you're working all those hours to be better off, compared to retirement, by a JNCOs salary, a figure which you probably don't consider "a damn good wage". Yes, there might be other benefits from staying, for example continuing to accrue pension rights, or maybe job satisfaction, social life, etc, but I would argue that "the obvious one of a damn good wage" might actually not be so obvious at all!!
Just checked my records, and here are the actual figures:
Last months RAF pay, net: £4170
First months pension income, net: £2670
My statement above was slightly inaccurate, the pension was actually 64% of my previous RAF pay. Thus if I had stayed in (not an option for me at age 55 prior to the latest extensions to 60) I would have been working a 40+ hour week in the RAF to be £18,000 a year better off than in retirement. Hopefully this illustrates my point that staying in for "a damn good wage" is very open to debate!
You are probably correct in describing staying in as "the easy option"!!
The decision you will ultimately make is a personal one, all you can do (as indeed you are trying to) is gather as much information as possible and make your own choice.
However, when you describe one reason for staying in as "the obvious one of a damn good wage" consider the following. I recently retired at 55 on AFPS05, and my immediate pension net income was approx. 62% of my RAF net income just prior to retirement. In other words, I only lost 38% of income by retiring! Therefore, assuming broadly similar figures for yourself, one could argue that by staying in you are actually doing so for approx. one third of your current wage. You are working all those hours to only be better off, in comparison to retirement, by about one third of your net salary. As one illustration you're working all those hours to be better off, compared to retirement, by a JNCOs salary, a figure which you probably don't consider "a damn good wage". Yes, there might be other benefits from staying, for example continuing to accrue pension rights, or maybe job satisfaction, social life, etc, but I would argue that "the obvious one of a damn good wage" might actually not be so obvious at all!!
Just checked my records, and here are the actual figures:
Last months RAF pay, net: £4170
First months pension income, net: £2670
My statement above was slightly inaccurate, the pension was actually 64% of my previous RAF pay. Thus if I had stayed in (not an option for me at age 55 prior to the latest extensions to 60) I would have been working a 40+ hour week in the RAF to be £18,000 a year better off than in retirement. Hopefully this illustrates my point that staying in for "a damn good wage" is very open to debate!
You are probably correct in describing staying in as "the easy option"!!
Last edited by Biggus; 2nd Mar 2015 at 20:51.
Biggus - thanks for sharing that. Certainly a different and interesting perspective.
Bugger, I really do have a decision to make and the clock is ticking.
Bugger, I really do have a decision to make and the clock is ticking.
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Same principle applies, JaJ. Don't forget that by staying in you continue to get protection benefits which might be useful. Biggus makes a very good point. Everyone different. It depends on your rank but research your options if the lifetime allowance drops.
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Biggus thanks very much for your perspective.
Seems that those of us in this boat have a lot of thinking to do in the next 20-odd days. I know everyone has different circumstances, however if anyone gleams some interesting snippets that would help sway me, or any fellow Ppruner either way, then I would appreciate your input.
Definitely leaving this decision until the eleventh hour...
Seems that those of us in this boat have a lot of thinking to do in the next 20-odd days. I know everyone has different circumstances, however if anyone gleams some interesting snippets that would help sway me, or any fellow Ppruner either way, then I would appreciate your input.
Definitely leaving this decision until the eleventh hour...
I'm also going to be an 11th hour man. The biggest factor for me at my late age though is next posting. An enjoyable flying job would keep me content. A god awful staff job requiring long hours would see me off. Problem is, I would like a cast iron guarantee of my next job before signing on and how likely is that in this day and age? What I haven't had chance to read yet is; do we automatically lose the option point at 55 if we sign on till 60? I know I can pvr after 30 years of service but that is more messy.
I've not received my letter yet but it is going to be an interesting decision with the complications of AFPS75 to 15 thrown into the mix, let alone the potential pension legislation in the future. I've already hit the final PAS increment level so it would be a flat line for me for up to 17 years.
One of the elements that seems grossly unfair is that a PVR in the future whilst on AFPS15 will see my AFPS75 pension abated under PVR terms, even though the scheme is closed. Having served for over 25 years on the 75 scheme why should a PVR 5, 10 or 15 years in the future see this part of my pension pot abated when I did not PVR when serving under its conditions?
One of the elements that seems grossly unfair is that a PVR in the future whilst on AFPS15 will see my AFPS75 pension abated under PVR terms, even though the scheme is closed. Having served for over 25 years on the 75 scheme why should a PVR 5, 10 or 15 years in the future see this part of my pension pot abated when I did not PVR when serving under its conditions?
PA,
Why is the PVR option more messy? I don't know if it will change under NEM, but it used to be that once you were over 50 you could PVR with 6 months notice to leave. Given the amount of resettlement you would be entitled to, and terminal leave, it comes pretty close to PVRing and then clearing your desk straight away! That doesn't seem at all messy to me.
I can't see any desk officer being able to make any guarantee to anyone prior to them making their decision, if for no other reason than at that stage the desk officer won't yet know how many will ultimately stay or go, and won't know how many cards he has to shuffle the deck and fill his slots.
Edited to add:
Ah - I've just seen JTO's post, maybe that's why the PVR option becomes messy?
Why is the PVR option more messy? I don't know if it will change under NEM, but it used to be that once you were over 50 you could PVR with 6 months notice to leave. Given the amount of resettlement you would be entitled to, and terminal leave, it comes pretty close to PVRing and then clearing your desk straight away! That doesn't seem at all messy to me.
I can't see any desk officer being able to make any guarantee to anyone prior to them making their decision, if for no other reason than at that stage the desk officer won't yet know how many will ultimately stay or go, and won't know how many cards he has to shuffle the deck and fill his slots.
Edited to add:
Ah - I've just seen JTO's post, maybe that's why the PVR option becomes messy?
Biggus - as I understand it, leaving at an option point entails no financial penalty. PVR'ing means an immediate loss of flying pay for the last 6 months of service. Ergo, if posted to an absolutely rubbish job, then it would be nice to have the option of leaving at 55 without cost.
Party - the original poster mentioned they are on PAS - therefore no 'Flying Pay' to reduce on PVR. I'm sure there are other financial implications but the flying pay one doesn't affect PAS (warning - information from circa 3 yrs ago - may be expired - I stand to be corrected if so 
)
)
Sandy, you're info is still correct - I'm PA and do not receive fg pay.
Also, I'm on AFPS05 and as I'm less than a year to my 55 departure point, if I do sign on for NEM, I stay on AFPS05, but as JTO, I would be on the top increment of PA so would effectively be taking pay cuts every year compared to others.
I'm also concerned also about lifetime contributions and whether this applies to AFPS05 and if so, how much is it and how do I calculate how much I've contributed???
Also, I'm on AFPS05 and as I'm less than a year to my 55 departure point, if I do sign on for NEM, I stay on AFPS05, but as JTO, I would be on the top increment of PA so would effectively be taking pay cuts every year compared to others.
I'm also concerned also about lifetime contributions and whether this applies to AFPS05 and if so, how much is it and how do I calculate how much I've contributed???
Perhaps I should add to the OP's questions to state that all aircrew of sqn ldr and above are being offered an extension of service to age 60 - not just PAS.
Not too sure about NCA as I sit here but extensions are definitely out there.
Not too sure about NCA as I sit here but extensions are definitely out there.
and another thing
From the OP -
My question - Does an FTRS engagement generate an abatement (or abeyance) to one's service pension (or lump sum even) that is already being paid ?
I ask, because this currently applies to teachers who take their pensions and then later return to teaching as 're-employed pensioners.' Catches a lot of them out and the pompous 'prevention of loss to the public purse' as if teaching in retirement was fraudulent, certainly doesn't seem to justify the cost of the harassment and administration. I ask because all government pension schemes are doubtless aligned and ruled by the treasury.
From JaJ –
My limited, amateur understanding is that the current lifetime allowance (£1.25m ?) applies to one's entire range of pension provision - which might include multiple workplace pensions, private pension plans and AVCs, (but not OAP at present.) Furthermore the LTA will take into account the growth of all those funds where 'growth' applies. The exception is for Final Salary schemes where the LTA is 'back-calculated' by multiplying your expected FS pension by 20. That is to say, if one's expected FS pension is 50k (yeah I know ...) it is multiplied by 20 to give you a deemed LTA of £1m.
The 'other lot' are talking about a reduction to £1m LTA from after the May election – to fund something or other ... as well as a reduction of tax allowance on one's pension contributions. If you exceed the LTA there are whopping penalties. NB I believe that for some odd reason, LTA doesn't apply to MPs and some other privileged folk.
From the SPPA website -
And BTW there is an Annual Allowance (limit) for contributions to your pension funds. Penalty for exceedance.
And ABTW, if your future FS pension (that you might not live long enough to receive) is deemed to have increased by more than a certain amount (because of a big pay rise for example) you receive on account of it, a whopping additional tax bill on top of your PAYE, to be paid here and now. I have yet to find any specific rules, rates or examples for this tax because the amount depends on your individual contributions and those of your employer, and the tax is personal between you and your employer and HMRC. As a result, one cannot do theoretical calculations as one can with ordinary income tax. In effect, it seems to be a secret known only unto the victims.
The pension rules change with the weather. Just what you don't need for long term planning. It's a nightmare. All the above subject to health warnings. Happy to be corrected. ............... LFH
Is it better to leave at 55, receive your 75/05 pension, and then if remaining in the RAF is for you, accept an FTRS role on the new pension scheme ?
I ask, because this currently applies to teachers who take their pensions and then later return to teaching as 're-employed pensioners.' Catches a lot of them out and the pompous 'prevention of loss to the public purse' as if teaching in retirement was fraudulent, certainly doesn't seem to justify the cost of the harassment and administration. I ask because all government pension schemes are doubtless aligned and ruled by the treasury.
From JaJ –
I'm also concerned about lifetime contributions and whether this applies to AFPS05 and if so, how much is it and how do I calculate how much I've contributed???
The 'other lot' are talking about a reduction to £1m LTA from after the May election – to fund something or other ... as well as a reduction of tax allowance on one's pension contributions. If you exceed the LTA there are whopping penalties. NB I believe that for some odd reason, LTA doesn't apply to MPs and some other privileged folk.
From the SPPA website -
Year Lifetime Allowance (£m)
2011/12 1.8
2012/13 1.5
2013/14 1.5
2014/15 1.25
2011/12 1.8
2012/13 1.5
2013/14 1.5
2014/15 1.25
And ABTW, if your future FS pension (that you might not live long enough to receive) is deemed to have increased by more than a certain amount (because of a big pay rise for example) you receive on account of it, a whopping additional tax bill on top of your PAYE, to be paid here and now. I have yet to find any specific rules, rates or examples for this tax because the amount depends on your individual contributions and those of your employer, and the tax is personal between you and your employer and HMRC. As a result, one cannot do theoretical calculations as one can with ordinary income tax. In effect, it seems to be a secret known only unto the victims.
The pension rules change with the weather. Just what you don't need for long term planning. It's a nightmare. All the above subject to health warnings. Happy to be corrected. ............... LFH
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Flash,
Your understanding is very good. The only things I would add are that you need to add to the figure of twenty times your final salary pension, the tax free cash and that any pension benefits taken pre 2006 are calculated as twenty five times, and not twenty. If the LTA drops, then it starts getting serious for a lot more people. Transferring deferred benefits is banned in about 5 weeks, new guidance allows you to leave your private pension to absolutely whoever you want, free of tax. Not so with an unfounded FS public sector pension though.
Since August 2011, if you exceed your annual allowance (£40k) and incur a tax charge of under £2000 then 'Scheme pays' rules apply (search: Annual Allowance Scheme Pays August 2011 etc). It's tosh of course, you pay because you get a smaller pension later on. Anything more than a £2000 tax charge, then you stump up via self assessment. The annual calculation is more complicated and revolves around a multiplication figure of sixteen, cash, start and finish date salaries of a few years and the inflation rates for September.
I hadn't heard that about the Parliamentary Contribution Pension Fund. I shall rummage around. If so, another appalling aspect. Various aspects of The Judiciary Pension Fund though? Well.. no comment!!! Ed Moribund has suggested though, he will allow using four years unused allowance, and not as it is currently, three. Steve Webb, the pensions minister, wants to scrap the lifetime allowance completely. It's almost worth arranging to get divorced, take a Benefit Crystalisation Event hit reduction, and then getting back together with your ex in time for a few more years accruals. But they might take the money and then run off with your best mate. Which would be doubly annoying.
Your understanding is very good. The only things I would add are that you need to add to the figure of twenty times your final salary pension, the tax free cash and that any pension benefits taken pre 2006 are calculated as twenty five times, and not twenty. If the LTA drops, then it starts getting serious for a lot more people. Transferring deferred benefits is banned in about 5 weeks, new guidance allows you to leave your private pension to absolutely whoever you want, free of tax. Not so with an unfounded FS public sector pension though.
Since August 2011, if you exceed your annual allowance (£40k) and incur a tax charge of under £2000 then 'Scheme pays' rules apply (search: Annual Allowance Scheme Pays August 2011 etc). It's tosh of course, you pay because you get a smaller pension later on. Anything more than a £2000 tax charge, then you stump up via self assessment. The annual calculation is more complicated and revolves around a multiplication figure of sixteen, cash, start and finish date salaries of a few years and the inflation rates for September.
I hadn't heard that about the Parliamentary Contribution Pension Fund. I shall rummage around. If so, another appalling aspect. Various aspects of The Judiciary Pension Fund though? Well.. no comment!!! Ed Moribund has suggested though, he will allow using four years unused allowance, and not as it is currently, three. Steve Webb, the pensions minister, wants to scrap the lifetime allowance completely. It's almost worth arranging to get divorced, take a Benefit Crystalisation Event hit reduction, and then getting back together with your ex in time for a few more years accruals. But they might take the money and then run off with your best mate. Which would be doubly annoying.
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Party Animal
NCA PAS within 5 years of exit date (55 or the new 35 years service) will be boarded in early April, (you didn't expect to be treated the same as the Os now did you)?
NCA PAS within 5 years of exit date (55 or the new 35 years service) will be boarded in early April, (you didn't expect to be treated the same as the Os now did you)?