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Aircrew Outbrief

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Aircrew Outbrief

Old 8th May 2015, 06:03
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The outbrief has been a bread and butter part of the flying process for me since I joined back in 83 and continues through to today. I have been involved in supervising as well as leading and flying in general and imho the outbrief forms a vital part of the assurance process that everyone flying has all the relevant information and covered all the necessary points.

A brief is fine as far as it goes but there may be other elements not directly part of your sortie brief that you need to know and the outbrief process covers this. It is a catch-all, usually not needed as the information has been covered but it regularly catches something or things that haven't been covered and is therefore, again imho, a vital part of the process of going flying.
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Old 8th May 2015, 07:44
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JE: Well, no. We had a briefing, in the briefing room, which covered the tasking and all requirements pertaining to that task. We then signed the 700 on the way to the aircraft and got airborne after carrying out proper start procedures...


That may be quite so JE, but I think folks here have overlooked its value to finalise the formation brief. Typically on a squadron, we would brief as a 4, wash the coffee cup and final splash, perhaps latest gouge by Duty Auth to the formation leader, hover around the flight authorisation sheet for the outbrief by the formation leader for any updates, a/c allocations and perhaps a reminder on an important issue. Then step.


(Hmmm, outbrief as a 4, walk as a 3, start-up as a pair, take-off as a singleton...or was that the Italians!)
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Old 8th May 2015, 22:04
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These days an "outbrief" is more about who will take "the can" when things go wrong! If the flight authoriser didn't give written permission to "break wind"... don't! Other than that... is my medical current - tick. Is my IR current - tick. Am I night rated - tick. And so the list goes on!


It has its merits.
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Old 9th May 2015, 09:52
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I'm confused, do you have to a stakeholder to wear outbriefs ?
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Old 9th May 2015, 10:50
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And I thought "outbriefs" were what Superman wears
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Old 9th May 2015, 11:15
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Quite so TCF.

The outbrief usually grows with each incident/accident. It can be a great admin last chance check but more often than not turns into a soul destroying diatribe of arse covering rubbish.

I was asked once by a BoI whether I had (out)briefed a mishap crew about the increased risk of birdstrike near to the coast. I said I couldn't remember doing so but probably not, neither had I reminded them how to fly the aircraft.
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Old 9th May 2015, 14:31
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On a busy squadron, the authorising officer can't attend every crew brief. The out brief is a summary for the duty auth. Simply put, it works. The "dressed to survive" question was my favourite. Pilots trying to fly in winter without the basics to last 10 minutes outside the aircraft!
The out brief works particularly well in the police/AA civilian role where there isn't any time to plan.
When you leave the house you self out brief....... Keys, wallet, phone......
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Old 9th May 2015, 15:51
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fish

Jayteeto, quite. Left house en route for long weekend. Ran through post departure checklist: coffee pot off and empty - ?????

Not sure, drive 15 miles back home. Sure enough, on and full.

Mrs PN takes opportunity for toilet break. Waste not want not, I have a coffee.

Left house second time. Ran through post departure checklist: coffee pot off and empty - ?????

Not sure, drive 15 miles back home. Sure enough, on and still not empty.

Sorry for the drift but it does prove a point although an outbrief didn't stop us getting airborne once without cups.
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Old 9th May 2015, 18:24
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Aircrew Outbrief

Ok so let's be honest. Who here has been saved from a walk back from the aircraft for a forgotten item by the out brief. Leg restraints would be my favourite
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Old 9th May 2015, 18:51
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Spectacles, testicles, valet and vatch, or as cadets, "sh1t, shower and shave".............
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Old 10th May 2015, 06:29
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He shall remain nameless but one Student on the Jag OCU used to quite often forget to take ALL his maps with him, tired of running down to the jet with them after I think the third occasion, he had 2 out-briefs from then on, one from the Auth and one from me out of earshot of the Auth, "Maps Sir"? I didn't say it once when busy and he looked at me funny and said "Come on ask me, im running late"!
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Old 10th May 2015, 09:00
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Umm, is that what we called 'briefing'?
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Old 10th May 2015, 22:18
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Yes....thats what I would have thought Basil.
In my day, and yes I know its a complete irrelevence to the 21st Century RAF, we briefed every sortie. If it was a self authorised singleton sortie we briefed each other (not unlike your outbrief) If not self authorised a full brief was given which included aircraft allocation and location, fuel and weapon load, bingo fuel, weather en route and recovery, route details including all relevant notams, speed and heights to fly, weapon and range procedure, diversions and emergencies, frequencies, squawk, photo/simulated target brief, and recovery brief.
If there were more than one aircraft all crew plus authorising officer assembled for the brief which included all the above plus formation tactics, callsigns, lost leader etc
I may have missed some items out due to advanced age and too much scotch but you get the gist.
This does not neccessarily apply to the single seat mates, where I suspect the modern outbrief could be more applicable.
As far as personal stats, currencies etc. we were treated as adults and were expected to ensure we were suitably current. However if such "admin" details are included in an outbrief it seems quite sensible to me
Finally you only left your maps or gloves or checklist behind once!!! A buccaneer formation didn't suffer fools!.
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Old 10th May 2015, 23:28
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Oh, come on. Who could really have a problem with someone taking three minutes of your life to backup your perfection in order to check you're as perfect as ever?

Sadly, the duty auth can't come with you to the locker room to help you dress, so your clean underpants and leg restraints are pretty much your own affair.

The outbrief (final brief on your way out to the jet, for that asked what it means) has one basic function and performs two services. Its function is to keep people's safe and effective. You work out how that works.

The services are to backup the flight lead's work in preparing for the sortie. It offers him a quick check of all the work that's gone into preparing for the sortie. Something I never resented as a flight lead.

It also allows the authorising officer or duty auth the chance to discharge his duty without having to attend every planning session and briefing personally. Good news when he has to do so much else with engineering, Ops and may also be the DOF, with all that entails.

It's simply a check before walking/stepping. Nothing here to fear. And it works both ways; the duty auth also gives updates to the crews, stuff that's changed since they went into a huddle.
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Old 11th May 2015, 11:42
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Who could really have a problem with someone taking three minutes of your life to backup your perfection in order to check you're as perfect as ever?
Not me, as I said totally sensible.
It also allows the authorising officer or duty auth the chance to discharge his duty without having to attend every planning session and briefing personally.
Things have clearly changed since my days, when it would have been unthinkable for the authorisor not to be present at the briefing. Perhaps we had more guys (no girls in those days sadly) or, heaven forbid, we were better organised.
I have absolutey no problem with an outbrief (as it has been explained to me) but I simply wanted the record to show that we were not entirely loose cannons and cowboys in the cold war days.
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Old 11th May 2015, 12:44
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Back in the days when the RAF had lots of aerodromes, some chap diverted into an unfamiliar place due to Wx.

After the '10:00 clearance' had (for once) actually made its appearance, he rang the grown-ups back at base for clearance to finish the previous LL sortie (stats needed for the boss's board.....). This was granted and off he went - only to hit something he hadn't known about and park his jet on a windswept hillside whilst he thought about things during his M-B let down.

Without the umbrella of the Duty Auth's 'out brief', it seems that he'd forgotten to check the NOTAM update (or whatever)....and there was an uncharted obstacle on his route.

In the big aeroplane world, we used to have a formal pre-flight briefing at which the Auth (if not on board) would be present. Some ex-FJ flight commander suggested a world of 'outbriefs' and 'duty auths', but the Boss reminded him that our pre-flight brief was entirely adequate, having been developed in the 20 or so years the squadron had been flying the aircraft.

So 'Outbriefs' probably have their value in some worlds, but aren't really needed everywhere.

Mind you, before I had self-auth status, I was once pre-auth'd to fly an aircraft back from Hawaii 2 weeks into the future. Where was the value in that?

Last edited by BEagle; 11th May 2015 at 16:36.
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Old 11th May 2015, 12:57
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Beags - I think there is always value in being in Hawaii, even if it is to fly from For R.O.G - yup - sadly the Sqn Exec doing the auth was usually far too busy to make the full crew brief (especially if it was at 0500...) so the outbrief was his chance to eyeball the info and quiz the Captain/P1/Nav to check their preparation was to his satisfaction.
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Old 11th May 2015, 13:37
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In the Jaguar world the out brief has saved more than one pilot from running into a parachute area etc that was not plotted until after they had planned, "No late warnings" from Tac booking often changed as well, I was going in the back seat one day and the Auth made me put a green jumper on under my immersion suit as he said i was not dressed for survival. In the Jag world at least the out brief from my side of the Ops desk was invaluable as a "last check" tool, what the drivers thought i don't know
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Old 11th May 2015, 17:58
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Do also remember that the flight lead could usually authorise his formation. He would also go through the outbrief checklist as he signed his life away. It's just a checklist.
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Old 12th May 2015, 06:56
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Briefing, authorising and time away

Beagle makes a fair point in his last sentence at 36 above. In the Herc world we were all effectively self-authorising if you looked at the things an authoriser is supposed to cover. Many of our departures from base were at 00 very little and there were never any grown ups in flight planning at that time. Each task had to be written up and then authorised when all the Auth could do was confirm that you had a constituted crew that was correctly qualified. At some later date (even), and not just later time, as the Captain you did the rest. In any case, sometimes the end of the task and, therefore, the final sortie could be days or even weeks later.

Originally, that was it and you amended the auth sheets on return to indicate what it was you had actually done in the event of a revised itinerary/routing. Then the fun detectors noticed and if your task changed you had to fill in a new auth sheet showing the new details and leave a signed copy with the handling agent even though it was all backed up with signals etc. For this all captains had to be signed up as self-authorising when away from base. I never did find out who if anybody actually saw these distantly off-loaded sheets of paper.

I well remember being somewhat bemused when first made a squadron training captain. In that job I could arrange my own aircraft (if available), arrange my own crew and then self-authorise to go and do whatever without telling anybody else. However, if it was a route task backed up by the full panoply of Group's tasking organisation I had to get authorised by a flight commander.

The rules were written for FJ squadron type flying and it took a lot of time and effort to get them even to reflect anything realistic for transport ops.
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