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AIP clawback

Old 14th Jun 2015, 09:56
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I know nothing about the history of this but from what I have read here everyone who got the money that the Treasury want back received it in good faith. "The system" told them they were entitled. In many cases recipients said "Are you sure?" and were told "Yes". This seems IMHO to parallel the criminal law concept of condonation - implied pardon of an offence by treating the offender as if it had not been committed. There might be a civil law equivalent

Might be worth a try. Good luck anyway to all those affected

Last edited by Wander00; 14th Jun 2015 at 13:14. Reason: Too early in the morning..not quite awake
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 10:15
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I didn't see this thread back in February when it was originally doing the rounds, but have just read-up.

That's an exceptionally bad decision by HMG, of all the bad decisions I've seen. A good lawyer will have a very strong position to fight this, and based solely on my old-fashioned moral compass telling me the law is ordinarily the champion of right over wrong, will get repayment rejected.

So to compound the Govt's crass decision, they now won't end up with either the repayment or the goodwill of the individual after the undoubted lengthy, expensive and bitter court battle.
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 10:42
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Interesting how they overpay, you pay back, you over pay, they don't pay back.

Big rumpus at the married quarters at Medmenham around 2005/6ish when it was revealed that a lot of the quarters had been incorrectly graded and, therefore, residents had been overcharged for years. When folks enquired of Mr Scribbly what refund we would receive, the official answer was that it was all in the past, would affect too many people and "what's done is done."
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 12:45
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Interesting that common sense has been mentioned, as I can categorically say that none has been used in my issue, I actually approached JPAC and they have an Isupport stating that I phoned up and asked in black and white, is this correct? Their answer? Absolutely! And here's some back pay to reinforce the error WE have made. Lovely......fast forward years later.....ah actually......we've decided that the interpretation was wrong.....bend over.
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 13:16
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Where is a "civil law" Gilbert Blades when you need him?
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 18:57
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How things don't change! I can offer an event that caught me, and many others I suspect in 1975. After the Turkish invasion of northern Cyprus in 74 many of us, I was a Jnr Tech at the time, found ourselves in possession of cars, on local HP deals, that we could not afford to pay off. Along comes Mr helpful PSF Akrotiri, with the offer of an "advance of pay" to allow us to pay off the finance (at the time, no one would buy a car in the south of Cyprus). Fast forward six months and after having spent all of our family savings on paying for the car to be brought to the UK, on Sir Galahad as I remember, registering and all the other stuff, I'm summoned to handbrake house at Cranwell. I was informed that the "advance of pay" was assessed to be unacceptable by HMRC and I was required to repay the amount forthwith. I'm still a Jnr Tech, and now have a bundle of joy to feed and clothe. I couldn't afford the cut in my pay to repay it by instalments, so sold the car, at a loss, and paid my debt. We spent 8 months before we could afford to buy another car, an old brown minivan. But SWMBO and myself learned the benefits of walking to shops, and carrying the bags home.

This thread definitely smacks of the many ways that so called "proffesional" PSF staff can lead us all in to debt. It seems that there is never a case for obeying rules and regulations, especially when a scribbly is involved.
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 08:17
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I went through all of this in 2004.

I asked PSF at Lossie if i was entitled to an AIP (we were all told on JMLC we could get it back in 2001) they said 'Yes, it's all in the book'. I applied it was checked by a SNCO in PSF and authed - I got my AIP

Fast forward 3 years - just posted into Akrotiri and bought a shiny new car, next pay slip has a cancelled deduction of over £3,000. I quick visit to PSF and I'm told i was never entitled to the AIP (only some trades were allowed it and Tech trades were not on the list and never had been). At the time there were lots of people effected by this issue.
I was told after lodged a complaint they wouldn't touch my wages while the dispute went on - they didn't but i didn't see any LOA or 'work of an unsanitary nature' money for 2 1/2 years while they clawed back the money.
I never did manage to reclaim the tax i'd paid either PSF's answer was thats not our problem and being in Cyprus made it a complete PITA to deal with the tax office.

If these guys win great, then i'm sure there are lots of guys who've been hit in the past will all be sat waiting to stick in a claim for the money they paid back.

The whole AIP system was a cluster from the start - there was no parity accross the trades, one could use the quals from JMLC, others couldn't all because the trade sponsors decided that way.

I wonder how many people have been effected by one of these 'cock ups' since the AIP system came in!
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 09:20
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Originally Posted by smujsmith
How things don't change! I can offer an event that caught me, and many others I suspect in 1975. ....
About the same time, I found myself on a long 6-month course, away from my home base and in a similar situation; I went to see the Army Paymaster for some advice. He told me that there was something in Queens Regulations that stipulated that a serviceman had to receive a specific percentage of his/her daily rate of pay and that no matter what the recovery was against him/her, they could only take so much and had to leave you with the regulated amount. He wrote to the authority that were after me, pointed out the requirement and they backed off. Still had to pay it off, but over a much longer time and it sure took a lot of stress away at a time I really needed it (I had to sell my car as well).
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 09:29
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Just wondering how many on here voted Tory, Oh well.
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 10:58
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spooky3 Just wondering how many on here voted Tory, Oh well.

???
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 11:00
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It is not a "Tory" thing, but a "Treasury" thing. Try Osborne as "Chancellor", not as a politician, and not CAS/CGS
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 11:15
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Correct, I'm currently dealing with a civil servant and the JSP's not a politician.
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 16:45
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I have had a number of pay issues over the last 7 years, in total the military has told me I owed them in excess of £22000!! Some of it was the current AiP fiasco, now resolved in my favour, the other was a very large amount and the final turd in the water pipe was £1200 deducted with no warning (another AiP screw up on JPACs side). I warned my CoC enough was enough, letters and meetings with my MP got the right questions asked to the right people and half a dozen letters from the Houses of Parliament sorted the problem out. My advice: cause as much of a stink as possible, write to your CoC stating the impact on you personally, morale in general and possible loyalty and trust issues. Involve your MP as an option, they are paid and voted in to represent you; the fact you are an ex or current Service person is irrelevant. Good luck.
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