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Ex Service Personnel Excel

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Ex Service Personnel Excel

Old 18th Jan 2015, 12:27
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Fair enough..in which case, if it's ok with TOFU, I'd like to pick up on F3's comment about HR running a mile, which is absolutely right as is his point about "showing everyone else up" . This can however cause issues of its own when ex SP can respond with impatience or worse to others perceived (or real) inadequacies. Btw, and I'm not necessarily attempting to make a wider point here, but re. "Illegal practices", of the four serious issues of deliberate rule-breaking I've encountered in my civil flying career, three were committed by ex SP.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 13:53
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Just because somebody is ex forces - does not automatically mean they are going to be excellent - they may or may not be - but as I posted previously - it is their individual personality and skill which will make them good - not necessarily their service training/experience !

We had an ex SAC(T) working with us last year - he had a 100mph body but alas only a 10mph brain,he was always rushing around at great speed and grossly overtightening everything he could lay his hands on !
The other team members said it was because he had been in the RAF but I said it was just his personality - he would still have turned out like that if he was civvy trained.
We have 2 other recently ex RAF guys on another team - they are both very good
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 14:49
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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My last employer employed a few ex Army guys and before we knew it we were swamped with them, the first one in got his mate a job etc etc. HR were having these guys pushed on them from above. Apparently doing a tour in Afghan makes you the ideal candidate for working offshore. The majority were pretty good, however there were more than a few where getting them to do the minimum was a major achievement. Trying to get them to speak to you at handover was almost impossible, they just grabbed their stuff and left. They were more interested in posing round the rig in their combats and army t-shirts trying to impress the stewardesses or posing in the gym. I came on shift one night to find no one present to give me a handover, he had decided to knock off early and go to the gym leaving alarm systems unmanned. One lad was so inept he was busted down to the lowest paid job on the rig, the guy who had got him his initial job left the company and got his mate a start at his new company in his intial offshore role. Pretty soon he was found out there and was busted down again. How he got taken on in a role requiring any responsibility baffled everyone who met him. He would have struggled to hit water if he threw himself off the rig.

Serving in the military is no guarantee of competence, the seemingly common view that all ex service guys are a notch above just doesnt wash. I am ex services myself and would say it's a 60/40 split, based on my own experience I hasten to add, with the odds favouring a solid performer. I met plenty of brain donors when I was in, did they all turn to geniuses when they hit Civvy St ?? .. hardly.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 22:34
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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of the four serious issues of deliberate rule-breaking I've encountered in my civil flying career, three were committed by ex SP.
Pal of mine is a training captain at BA and he shudders when he gets an ex mob flyer. In fact if any of you that are still in and flying transports, a/c of that ilk and want a career outside then please do not say when flying a RH seat approach into JFK 'Of course when I flew 17's into Kandahar...130's into a 4 inch strip''. It does not impress. Or so I am told.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 22:44
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Dare I say that probably says more about your pal than anything else. I would have thought any type of flying experience would be good to bring to the table if you meet BA's requirements.
Sadly, BA does have some pilots, trainers and managers that have convinced themselves they are God's gift to aviation.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 22:57
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Point accepted and stored. But at the end of the day, your training captain is your training captain.
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 12:48
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Chris Bryant MP - Labour Culture Spokeman

The arts world must address the dominance of performers like Eddie Redmayne, James Blunt and their ilk who come from privileged backgrounds, according to Labour’s new shadow culture minister.

we can’t just have a culture dominated by Eddie Redmayne and James Blunt and their ilk,” he said.

James Blunt's response in an open letter

Dear Chris Bryant MP,

You classist gimp. I happened to go to a boarding school. No one helped me at boarding school to get into the music business. I bought my first guitar with money I saved from holiday jobs (sandwich packing!). I was taught the only four chords I know by a friend. No one at school had ANY knowledge or contacts in the music business, and I was expected to become a soldier or a lawyer or perhaps a stockbroker. So alien was it, that people laughed at the idea of me going into the music business, and certainly no one was of any use.

In the army, again, people thought it was a mad idea. None of them knew anyone in the business either.

And when I left the army, going against everyone’s advice, EVERYONE I met in the British music industry told me there was no way it would work for me because I was too posh. One record company even asked if I could speak in a different accent. (I told them I could try Russian).

Every step of the way, my background has been AGAINST me succeeding in the music business. And when I have managed to break through, I was STILL scoffed at for being too posh for the industry.

And then you come along, looking for votes, telling working class people that posh people like me don’t deserve it, and that we must redress the balance. But it is your populist, envy-based, vote-hunting ideas which make our country crap, far more than me and my **** songs, and my plummy accent.

I got signed in America, where they don’t give a stuff about, or even understand what you mean by me and “my ilk”, you prejudiced wazzock, and I worked my arse off. What you teach is the politics of jealousy. Rather than celebrating success and figuring out how we can all exploit it further as the Americans do, you instead talk about how we can hobble that success and “level the playing field”. Perhaps what you’ve failed to realise is that the only head-start my school gave me in the music business, where the VAST majority of people are NOT from boarding school, is to tell me that I should aim high. Perhaps it protected me from your kind of narrow-minded, self-defeating, lead-us-to-a-dead-end, remove-the-‘G’-from-‘GB’ thinking, which is to look at others’ success and say, “it’s not fair.”

Up yours,

James Cucking Funt
Nice one, James
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 13:06
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Not seen that before Fox3 ... Simply brilliant well said James
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 13:09
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It only hit the mainstream media an hour ago. We're a bit out of it here in rural Canada.
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 13:58
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Jame Blunt's notorious on twitter for his clever comments. Here's a selection of his put-downs (not for the easily offended):

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kimberleydad...cks#.iuyJRwq1q
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 16:22
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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We had the same after the Olympics, when someone was complaining about how many of the athletes came from public school backgrounds.

The reason in both cases is quite simple. As a general rule (yes there will be exceptions) it is only in the public schools that drama clubs still flourish, there are still school theatres that are actively used, active music clubs, recording studios, etc. It also only tends to be public schools where non mainstream sports are still actively pursued.

If the MP in question wants more people from less privileged backgrounds in the arts and athletics then he needs to improve the opportunity for children in state schools to experience these activities, i.e. more facilities, and more teachers willing to participate in out of hours activities.
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 16:43
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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It also only tends to be public schools where non mainstream sports are still actively pursued.
ie not football.
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 17:15
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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One of my former tutees won a medal in those Olympics, his second. Helping talented individuals takes a lot of effort from all staff, not just the coaches. Extra meals, school vehicles in use at all hours - I can remember giving him individual tutorials starting at 9pm, as that was when he got back from practice 70 miles away, having been driven by another teacher. And at that stage, he hadn't won a thing.
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 17:23
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Well said, James, thanks for posting that, F3...and thanks even more to Chris Bryant MP for the rare slip of the mask, exposing his contempt for anyone who's hard work has made them a success.
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 17:31
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The same would apply to the Olympians in many cases. Whilst Eton do have their own rowing lake, our future Olympians (3 Golds, a Silver and a Bronze in the last 4 Olympics) trained on a twisty bit of river half the correct length, in boats provided by donations, with all time freely given by staff on top of their normal teaching. And the kids worked themselves as hard as they could.

Privilege, my @rse.
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 18:02
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Some very good points by Anarchy Fan. I'd hate to work somewhere with lots of obvious ex military making out they were better than the rest of the workforce. Sometimes the military makes out it does fantastically difficult work which only it can do well, and that's true to a point, but also civilian sectors do fantastic jobs every day, without the brouhaha.
I've found the actual work ethic of the (non British mind) civilians I work with now about 1000% better than many of the RN matelots I used to work with, there is just simply no comparison, and I find this a refreshing change if I'm truthful. Things just happen so much quicker here and far more reliably out here. But money kicks in with this-we are on good rates and no-one wants to lose their job. Whereas if your a simple scroat stoker on 1.2k a month, who really cares whether you do a good job or not, whether you go or stay?
Another thing I've noticed is I'm no longer bothered or surrounded by dozens of scheming bastards continually trying to get promoted!! This seems to be making things incredibly more easy- everyone is in a set role and position and if you want to get up the next rung its likely you will have to get on the websites and look for a new job elsewhere. Its made a massive difference, that, to the general relatively relaxed happiness of where I am.
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 22:13
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Whenurhappy,

Check your PMs
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Old 20th Jan 2015, 23:47
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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I ag
ree, and I suggest that the 'Something not right...' is that too many employers have no experience of, or know no-one with experience of, Service life and values. On the contrary, too many perhaps have been weened on the Peaceniks' agenda of being 'against war' and those whose duty it is to conduct it.
Leaving the RAF after a mere 13+ years, the culture shock that I experienced was not helped by being accused of being a mercenary and a hired killer by a couple who were friends of friends. That they were both teachers was purely incidental I guess...anyway, that was way back in the 70's, so it's quite different today I guess, isn't it? Isn't it?


I'll go along with that with the exception that some ex-service people don't always know how good they are, and need to adjust! I ended up [Rtd Sqn Ldr RNZAF} at one of the best secondary colleges in Wellington in an executive position, and found very quickly that teachers are not necessarily the best managers of anything! I used to attend Head of Department meetings and on a number of occasions left them to go and fix some real or imagined problem that had been raised, with a nod to the Head master to indicate "fixed it", and one day he asked me "How do you know all this stuff?". I told him I had spent 25 years in an organisation which sorted it's problems out before they became issues!It's called initiative. Management heirachy in the private sector doesn't always recognise initiative and it is often seen as a threat if it comes upwards!
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Old 21st Jan 2015, 14:35
  #59 (permalink)  

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We had the same after the Olympics, when someone was complaining about how many of the athletes came from public school backgrounds.
And some blame can rightly attach to public sector teaching staff.

I recall an interview with Wiggo around the Olympics when he mentioned his earliest ambition to be an Olympic cyclist, when at a State School in Kilburn.

"Nah", said the teacher, "kids from round here don't do that sort of stuff!"

And that was the PE teacher/Games master!
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