IS indifference to air power
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IS indifference to air power
The reports by German writer Juergen Todenhoefer ought to make interesting reading for proponents of our air campaign against IS. Juergen and his son travelled extensively and at very great personal risk in their territory. That they are extremely brutal and ruthless we know anyway. But his report conveys the immense self-confidence and determination of the organisation. What ought to interest us particularly is how little troubled they appear to be about air attacks. They no longer travel in large convoys and spread themselves amongst the population becoming a hard, bordering on impossible target. He estimated that dislodging the 5,000 fighters occupying the town of Racca with air power, would entail killing tens of thousands of townspeople.
Todenhoefer's foray into Mosul was interesting but not unprecedented. There was a shamefully largely ignored documentary by another news outlet called Vice News over the summer.
That gave a very candid warts and all impression of life in Raqqa and should be required watching by anyone interested in what's going on or making decisions
https://news.vice.com/video/the-isla...te-full-length
That gave a very candid warts and all impression of life in Raqqa and should be required watching by anyone interested in what's going on or making decisions
https://news.vice.com/video/the-isla...te-full-length
Last edited by Melchett01; 24th Dec 2014 at 14:50. Reason: Fix link
Yeah,
Dropping barrel bombs on school children, really doing it properly eh?
Assad, blowing limbs off his own fellow countrymen's children, really doing it properly.
FFS...
Dropping barrel bombs on school children, really doing it properly eh?
Assad, blowing limbs off his own fellow countrymen's children, really doing it properly.
FFS...
As opposed to the Opposition and their unguided 'Hell Cannons' which are their version of a barrel bomb and which is launched in the rough direction of a target area.
Give up on the righteous indignation on this one pr00ne, there is no good or bad in this one, it's a mess from start to finish. Elements of the opposition we are so keen to promote have carried out their fair share of atrocities, they are just rarely reported in the western media - gets a bit embarrassing for the politicians you see. There's more swapping of sides than at a Norfolk swingers party, so you can never completely tell with any accuracy who is 'good' who is 'bad' and whether they'll be on the same side next week. And anybody who believes this is about democracy has missed the point completely. As with nearly all things tribal, it can be distilled down to money and power, with everything else used as a cover for those two factors.
You may not like the Assad regime or the incumbents in Baghdad, but they offer one thing the opposition can't - a degree of stability and legitimacy. Like it or not, both govts have a degree of genuine support and are far better placed to run what's left of their respective countries than the rag tag Dad's Army and tribes squabbling between themselves on a constant basis. The coalition could have toppled both govts inside a month if they had really wanted to, but thank heavens we have collectively learnt at least one lesson from 2003.
Give up on the righteous indignation on this one pr00ne, there is no good or bad in this one, it's a mess from start to finish. Elements of the opposition we are so keen to promote have carried out their fair share of atrocities, they are just rarely reported in the western media - gets a bit embarrassing for the politicians you see. There's more swapping of sides than at a Norfolk swingers party, so you can never completely tell with any accuracy who is 'good' who is 'bad' and whether they'll be on the same side next week. And anybody who believes this is about democracy has missed the point completely. As with nearly all things tribal, it can be distilled down to money and power, with everything else used as a cover for those two factors.
You may not like the Assad regime or the incumbents in Baghdad, but they offer one thing the opposition can't - a degree of stability and legitimacy. Like it or not, both govts have a degree of genuine support and are far better placed to run what's left of their respective countries than the rag tag Dad's Army and tribes squabbling between themselves on a constant basis. The coalition could have toppled both govts inside a month if they had really wanted to, but thank heavens we have collectively learnt at least one lesson from 2003.
Last edited by Melchett01; 25th Dec 2014 at 00:35.
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Not doing it properly. Unlike Assad.
Dropping barrel bombs on school children, really doing it properly eh?
Assad, blowing limbs off his own fellow countrymen's children, really doing it properly.
Assad, blowing limbs off his own fellow countrymen's children, really doing it properly.
We Nuked, firebombed etc how many again in WW2.? What you need to do, is warranted by your circumstances and what is available to you.
Its all very well to be morally superior when you have every weapon under the sun available to you.
As for airpower, as much as I like to see a severe smiting Of ISIS by a few hundred thousand western ground troops, that doesn't seem like that will happen anytime soon. As such it will be targeted air power and local forces doing it. Which means a long drawn out campaign.
The big question is by local, is there enough Sunni's who may stand up when the need arises?
And anybody who believes this is about democracy has missed the point completely. As with nearly all things tribal, it can be distilled down to money and power, with everything else used as a cover for those two factors.
As for airpower, as much as I like to see a severe smiting Of ISIS by a few hundred thousand western ground troops,
Just asking...you know....as someone who has a vested interest.
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rh200
Which is why so many "winners" fail to hold on to the subsequent peace.
You have to win in the right way, to achieve that.
There is no right or wrong in war, the only properly is what you need to do to win. You do what you have to effect that means, no more, no less.
We Nuked, firebombed etc how many again in WW2.? What you need to do, is warranted by your circumstances and what is available to you.
We Nuked, firebombed etc how many again in WW2.? What you need to do, is warranted by your circumstances and what is available to you.
You have to win in the right way, to achieve that.
Air strikes? هل أنا ازعجت - which is Arabic for "Am I boverred?"
The first thing that children do about something that bothers them is to announce indifference!
I rather suspect that having their every move watched, denying their freedom of movement and living under the constant threat of a Hellfire, GBU12, JDAM, Brimstone or Paveway is really 'ticking them off' - hence they keep cutting off innocent people's heads off with knives!
LJ
The first thing that children do about something that bothers them is to announce indifference!
I rather suspect that having their every move watched, denying their freedom of movement and living under the constant threat of a Hellfire, GBU12, JDAM, Brimstone or Paveway is really 'ticking them off' - hence they keep cutting off innocent people's heads off with knives!
LJ
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Perhaps the striking thing about the situation in the area reported on, Leon is that for all their ruthlessness, beheadings and crucifixions have dropped right off, perhaps the threat thereof being enough.
Unfortunately executions, beheadings and crucifictions are still a regular and certainly weekly if not daily occurrence across the IS area of operations. But as many are locals or Regime troops - occasionally their own fighters too - they just don't make the headlines.
A quick look on social media shows they haven't changed their ways in that respect. All too often individuals are both beheaded and crucified which can only be to prove a point and generate fear and propaganda. If the individual is lucky, it's a big heavy sword that's used by somebody who knows what they are doing and it's over quickly. The alternative is frankly too horrific to contemplate.
A quick look on social media shows they haven't changed their ways in that respect. All too often individuals are both beheaded and crucified which can only be to prove a point and generate fear and propaganda. If the individual is lucky, it's a big heavy sword that's used by somebody who knows what they are doing and it's over quickly. The alternative is frankly too horrific to contemplate.
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Not to forget the tragic stories of Yazidis being gang raped then bled out like animals over a pot. Utter animals. I never understood how government could have got it so wrong over the FSA, most of who we discover their brothers in arms, in Egypt and Libya, have absolutely no interest in democracy.
The way I see it, whilst Assad may have over stepped the mark in respect to how he has dealt with the uprising, in many ways, he had no choice, not having access to the sort of modern weapons we utilise. In many ways, you could argue his methodology of palming out terror to those terrorizing his more loyal citizens is far more effective than the precision action we take...
I remember back to the first and second battles in Fallujah in which the city was evacuated and then flattened, taking out many many insurgents (anyone remember the stom over Shake n Bake? It bloody worked though).
I do wonder why we dont do the same with Raqqa and any other city identifying itself as the capital of IS. Fortunately, Kobane has been turned into somewhat of a psychological hook for IS who seem hellbent on preventing a loss there, especially in light of global coverage. More than happy for them to throw their rats at the place and it become a cemetery for them. The Kurdish forces deserve the Nobel peace prize for shouldering such a significant burden.
The way I see it, whilst Assad may have over stepped the mark in respect to how he has dealt with the uprising, in many ways, he had no choice, not having access to the sort of modern weapons we utilise. In many ways, you could argue his methodology of palming out terror to those terrorizing his more loyal citizens is far more effective than the precision action we take...
I remember back to the first and second battles in Fallujah in which the city was evacuated and then flattened, taking out many many insurgents (anyone remember the stom over Shake n Bake? It bloody worked though).
I do wonder why we dont do the same with Raqqa and any other city identifying itself as the capital of IS. Fortunately, Kobane has been turned into somewhat of a psychological hook for IS who seem hellbent on preventing a loss there, especially in light of global coverage. More than happy for them to throw their rats at the place and it become a cemetery for them. The Kurdish forces deserve the Nobel peace prize for shouldering such a significant burden.
VinRouge,
You do have a curious blood lust that comes through in many of your postings on this and other subjects.
Setting aside the barbarity of the Islamic State, your defence of Assad as 'having no choice' is curious. I'm no legal expert, but I am pretty certain that 'having no choice' will not stand up in the ICC as a defence for attacking your own population with chemical weapons and indiscriminate barrel bombs.
"May", You think?
You do have a curious blood lust that comes through in many of your postings on this and other subjects.
Setting aside the barbarity of the Islamic State, your defence of Assad as 'having no choice' is curious. I'm no legal expert, but I am pretty certain that 'having no choice' will not stand up in the ICC as a defence for attacking your own population with chemical weapons and indiscriminate barrel bombs.
The way I see it, whilst Assad may have over stepped the mark in respect to how he has dealt with the uprising...
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Setting aside the barbarity of the Islamic State, your defence of Assad as 'having no choice' is curious. I'm no legal expert, but I am pretty certain that 'having no choice' will not stand up in the ICC as a defence for attacking your own population with chemical weapons and indiscriminate barrel bombs.
I would love to see what IS are willing to do in respect to atrocities in the West to further their ideology. Only one way of dealing with these sorts of nutters and its utter annihilation and a zero tolerance policy including denial of freedom of movement and shelter. Until the local populace stand up as a whole against IS and their foreign fighters, nothing will change.