What a waste, what a fool.
It could as easy be symptomatic of one mans release from the stresses of a decade of warfare as it could the epitomy of individual arrogance.
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The ethos of an RAF Officer.
“The distinctive character, spirit and attitude of the RAF which together inspire our people to face challenge, and, on occasion, danger. It is underpinned by tradition, esprit de corps and a sense of belonging. It encompasses the will to contribute to the delivery of effective air power that arises from confidence in the chain of command, trust in colleagues and equipment, respect for individuality, sustainment of high professional standards and the courage to subordinate personal needs for the greater good.”
My highlight. He willingly entered into a career in which you agree to abide by the rules, however out of kilter with the rights of the citizens you defend those rules may be. I could not grow I goatie, wear an earing or travel to certain countries; so I didnt. I knew the fall-out from taking drugs, even weeks after a one-off 'experiment', so I never did 'experiment'.
To make comments that the Armed Forces should be permitted to take recreational drugs because society at large does really is the beginning of the end. Proone IMHO your attitude is one of a.... well lets just say the handle is appropriate.
If there is a medical aspect to this then he deserves support. If it is soley a criminal aspect then he should have gone to jail before dismisal. Few here will know which of these options is appropriate.
“The distinctive character, spirit and attitude of the RAF which together inspire our people to face challenge, and, on occasion, danger. It is underpinned by tradition, esprit de corps and a sense of belonging. It encompasses the will to contribute to the delivery of effective air power that arises from confidence in the chain of command, trust in colleagues and equipment, respect for individuality, sustainment of high professional standards and the courage to subordinate personal needs for the greater good.”
My highlight. He willingly entered into a career in which you agree to abide by the rules, however out of kilter with the rights of the citizens you defend those rules may be. I could not grow I goatie, wear an earing or travel to certain countries; so I didnt. I knew the fall-out from taking drugs, even weeks after a one-off 'experiment', so I never did 'experiment'.
To make comments that the Armed Forces should be permitted to take recreational drugs because society at large does really is the beginning of the end. Proone IMHO your attitude is one of a.... well lets just say the handle is appropriate.
If there is a medical aspect to this then he deserves support. If it is soley a criminal aspect then he should have gone to jail before dismisal. Few here will know which of these options is appropriate.
THS,
All true, this forum in general is becoming more like a combination of the Daily Mail readers comments and Jeremy Kyle by the day. Similar levels of outrage, ignorance and rushing to judgement and condemnation.
MATELO,
Can't argue with any of that.
Admin-Guru,
Meanwhile, back here in the real world...
I haven't seen ANYONE here suggest that the armed forces should be permitted to take recreational drugs.
A criminal aspect? Go to jail? Get real! So, you would be jailing members of the armed forces for drinking a glass of Whisky, a champagne cocktail, a pint of beer, a glass of wine? They are ALL recreational drugs.
All true, this forum in general is becoming more like a combination of the Daily Mail readers comments and Jeremy Kyle by the day. Similar levels of outrage, ignorance and rushing to judgement and condemnation.
MATELO,
Can't argue with any of that.
Admin-Guru,
Meanwhile, back here in the real world...
I haven't seen ANYONE here suggest that the armed forces should be permitted to take recreational drugs.
A criminal aspect? Go to jail? Get real! So, you would be jailing members of the armed forces for drinking a glass of Whisky, a champagne cocktail, a pint of beer, a glass of wine? They are ALL recreational drugs.
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"we don't know the full circumstances.." Come on, then. In what circumstances would this have been ok with you?
From his own words it's clear this wasn't any one-off dabbling and I would be more inclined to sympathy if not for the fact that he strongly and repeatedly encouraged younger officers to join in with his "hobby"
From his own words it's clear this wasn't any one-off dabbling and I would be more inclined to sympathy if not for the fact that he strongly and repeatedly encouraged younger officers to join in with his "hobby"
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Even if he were to get a medical there is zero chance of him landing a commercial flying job
On a positive note, I liked the bit about the "threesome". Mess parties have clearly improved since I left!
On a positive note, I liked the bit about the "threesome". Mess parties have clearly improved since I left!
Last edited by ShotOne; 10th Dec 2014 at 11:07. Reason: additional salacious detail
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It won't.
And he just needs to be clean for 2 years to get a medical
And he just needs to be clean for 2 years to get a medical
I feel for his son, being divorced, no doubt he is possibly paying maintenance / child support based on his earnings etc.. a source of income that has just disappeared overnight.
Some of the comments on the newspaper thread really do rankle, and as a newspaper thread one does not believe half of the dross they put in them.. One hopes he can put this all behind him and move on.
I totally agree with Tiger Mates comments and rather bizarrely I find myself agreeing with some of Proones, but in the military there is no place for it ever..
You said it, buster - "and we do not know the full circumstances"; so let's keep our stones pocketed, lest the glass houses start to suffer.
A criminal aspect? Go to jail? Get real! So, you would be jailing members of the armed forces for drinking a glass of Whisky, a champagne cocktail, a pint of beer, a glass of wine? They are ALL recreational drugs.
Nobody (I hope) is suggesting any form of drug taking in the Military.
is acceptable. The position has to now been perfectly clear, do drugs your history. I have no problem with that.
I am speaking in general and not about this particular case of which i know nothing.
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As much as some would like to think if you have a skill set that is required operators will take you what ever stupidity you have done in the past.
Once past 5 years not living in the UK it won't surface in any checks.
Once past 5 years not living in the UK it won't surface in any checks.
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Obviously I do not condone this behaviour. But, if the Daily Rag is correct colleagues (in the plural) reported him. To whom is the question? If it was the RAF Police this was unforgivable. They are not exactly the sharpest box of pencils. They should have had a discrete word with his direct superior and it could have been dealt with in house. If he had a mental/addiction problem this could also have been addressed and if necessary a medical discharge. Now his life has become very difficult, OK his fault but his boss and the Stn Cdr are not exactly smelling of roses. Not their fault of course but we know how things pan out.
I was involved with a situation where a senior officer was drinking and flying. We are not talking drunk or even over the drink driving limit but still against regs. A junior officer had a discrete word with the boss saying that he was not happy and the boss had a descrete word with the perpetrator and it was sorted out. Not even the Stn Cdr knew about it. Or the Daily Mail
I was involved with a situation where a senior officer was drinking and flying. We are not talking drunk or even over the drink driving limit but still against regs. A junior officer had a discrete word with the boss saying that he was not happy and the boss had a descrete word with the perpetrator and it was sorted out. Not even the Stn Cdr knew about it. Or the Daily Mail
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Problem being, there were more than one, one would imagine if a colleague reported it and you didn't, questions would be asked why not.
Whilst his act deserved punishment. I suspect there was a trail of signs leading to this outcome. His colleagues may of noticed a change in behaviour or appearance. I would suggest an intelligent man does not go from zero to taking coke in his room in one step. The question for the hierarchy is "why and could we have prevented this"
As to cocaine, one of my fellow flight students, back in the early 80's, got caught on a pee test for cocaine. Most of us were a little taken aback -- WTF were you thinking mate? - and of course he was tossed out on his ear.
Flash forward ten years. The training officer at our RAG (type training) has a young LTJG pop positive for cocaine after a standard Monday morning random urinalysis. Most people were very surprised. Then again, he had family up in the Los Angeles area, and lots friends from his younger days, none of whom had chosen the Navy as a profession. Training terminated.
I guess my point is: folks now and again make some stupid decisions.
EDIT:
I just noticed: age 43, divorced, career military officer. That fits the profile for a bit of "out of character" behavior ... well, at least in my experience. Sad, but not the first nor the last.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
In Service loyalty and 'there but for the grace of God' has kept incidents hidden. My skipper many years ago was carried by his crew when we should have abandoned out transatlantic flight.
Occasionally, modest class A drug use just does not happen; it is illegal.
[QUOTE=Exascot
776928]Obviously I do not condone this behaviour. But, if the Daily Rag is correct colleagues (in the plural) reported him. To whom is the question? If it was the RAF Police this was unforgivable. They are not exactly the sharpest box of pencils. They should have had a discrete word with his direct superior and it could have been dealt with in house. If he had a mental/addiction problem this could also have been addressed and if necessary a medical discharge. Now his life has become very difficult, OK his fault but his boss and the Stn Cdr are not exactly smelling of roses. Not their fault of course but we know how things pan out.
Are you seriously suggesting this should have been dealt with 'in the mess' ?
776928]Obviously I do not condone this behaviour. But, if the Daily Rag is correct colleagues (in the plural) reported him. To whom is the question? If it was the RAF Police this was unforgivable. They are not exactly the sharpest box of pencils. They should have had a discrete word with his direct superior and it could have been dealt with in house. If he had a mental/addiction problem this could also have been addressed and if necessary a medical discharge. Now his life has become very difficult, OK his fault but his boss and the Stn Cdr are not exactly smelling of roses. Not their fault of course but we know how things pan out.Are you seriously suggesting this should have been dealt with 'in the mess' ?
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Whatever happened to the simple old days of excessive beer, and sex in the back of a car?
I regret I have no sympathy for the individual.
As to how/where it should be reported, I guess I would have informed his Boss [privately].
I regret I have no sympathy for the individual.
As to how/where it should be reported, I guess I would have informed his Boss [privately].
Originally Posted by Exascot:8777006
Are you seriously suggesting this should have been dealt with 'in the mess' ?
