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Gripen NGs for Argentina..!

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Gripen NGs for Argentina..!

Old 23rd Oct 2014, 18:56
  #41 (permalink)  
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I say it again: do you believe that the ones already giving credit to the argentinean government, its institutions and companies do not know all these things you mention? If so, why do they give their money away? is it because they just simply want to loose it all?

Did you know that 6 years ago Embraer managed to give AA U$S 1500 million credit so it could purchase two dozens of its E-jets?

REPSOL got paid? No it did not. It just got bonuses (promises so to say) that quickly sold in the market. Of course "selling" means that someone is "buying". Are those buyers stupid? Do they care about CCC or selective default or Griesa? NO, my friend. They just go after the profit. And that is exactly what the actual situation of Argentina offers to them and quite a few other financial players.

By the way, have you learnt which banks created and act like "agents of payment" of the Argentinean Debts Re-structure Process of 2005 (re-opened in 2010)? Did you read about the final arrengement of last May with something like 15 european countries (including the UK)? For short: Argentina accepted that it´d pay almost U$S 10 billion through a period of 5 years (payments every six months), begging in July 2014. We may try to see what these governments have to say about "Argentina´s Default" "or CCC".

Cheers!!
Christian
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 19:37
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CAW
Did you know that 6 years ago Embraer managed to give AA U$S 1500 million credit so it could purchase two dozens of its E-jets?
Mate, how do you think aircrat are usually sold? There is a big difference between lending money to a country in default and a company allowing a customer to offset payments. The company has to do it to sell its products, the country may not have that bargaining power.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 20:26
  #43 (permalink)  
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That`s exactly the point!!

That`s the way planes are usually sold. And that is how most involved in this Gripen Saga expect things to happen. Both SAAB and Embraer want and need the argentinean intention to become a real purchase.

I just don`t understand why are some mates talking about CFK, botox, default, non existant credit and so on... if everyone knows and understand the financial mechanics that move the arms-market worldwide that`s just non-sense.

Christian
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 20:32
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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KC-390 plus Gripen NG would make a good team!
It is all academic. Given the superior combat radius of the Typhoon vs the Gripen, the KC 390s could be shot down before the Gripens had taken on enough fuel to reach the Falkands, leaving the Argie Gripens feet wet and short of fuel. Or just shoot down the Gripens. Or both.

Gripen combat radius = 432 nm
Typhoon combat radius = 769 nm
Buenos Aires to Stanley = 1,025 nm

Nuff said!
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 21:54
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CAW
On the other hand, there are many other sources that you may have not heard of, but are already giving credit to the argentinean government, and I´m talking about US dollars by the houndreds of millions... Repsol, the World Bank, People´s Bank of China, Banco Nacional de Desarrollo Económico y Social (Brazil), Embraer, the Central Bank of Venezuela, among others.
You beat me to it. The Chinese government, or one of their banks, could underwrite or loan guarantee X percentage of the purchase and thus allow the deal to continue moving. There would of course be strings attached, but aren't there with a lot of arms deals?
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Old 24th Oct 2014, 00:20
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CAW
Have you taken a look to the contracts signed when UK sold the Type42 destroyers to the ARA, as a quick example? (By the way, wasn´t that the last time the british naval industry sold a brand new war-ship to anyone in the world?)
A partial list:

Vospor (now BAE) - 2 1,200 ton corvettes for Oman built 1993-1997.

Yarrow (now BAE) - 2 2,300 ton corvettes for Malaysia built from the early 1990s to 1999.

BAE - 3 2,000 ton corvettes for Brunei built from 1995-2004 - Brunei decided to back out of the deal, a court decided BAE had fulfilled all of the contract and Brunei had to accept them, and Brunei put them up for sale - they were purchased by Indonesia.

BAE - 3 2,600 ton corvettes for Oman - last one delivered earlier this year.

BAE - 3 2,200 ton OPV for Trinidad & Tobago from 2007-2013 (T&T backed out, and the vessels were completed for Brazil).

BAE (and its Vospor subsidary) have been overseeing license-building of Vospor/BAE-designed FACs & OPVs in other nations from the early 1980s to present.

Last edited by GreenKnight121; 25th Oct 2014 at 06:09.
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Old 24th Oct 2014, 01:11
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And let's not forget the diesel subs to the Canadian, I'm surprised they are still talking to us.

Submarines: The Cursed Canadian Boats
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Old 24th Oct 2014, 04:48
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Neptunus Rex

Argentinian Air bases to Mount Pleasant (Stanley not really that important as far the air defence of the Islands go)

Rio Gallegos 452 miles (ish).

Rio Grande 404 miles (ish).

The Gripen would still need tanker support though,
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Old 24th Oct 2014, 10:14
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The Gripen would still need tanker support though,
And tankers make nice fat targets.
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Old 24th Oct 2014, 13:13
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And tankers make nice fat targets.
So would the Gripen if there isn't a budget for pilot training.

You can buy and operate any number of decent jet fighters, but if your pilots aren't well trained and your operations coordinated with EW and radar, you may simply provide an enemy with target practice at your own considerable expense. (See the Bekka Valley, 1982.)
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Old 24th Oct 2014, 14:53
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GreenKnight121
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAW
Have you taken a look to the contracts signed when UK sold the Type42 destroyers to the ARA, as a quick example? (By the way, wasn´t that the last time the british naval industry sold a brand new war-ship to anyone in the world?)

A partial list:

Vospor (now BAE) - 2 1,200 ton corvettes for Oman built 1993-1997.

Yarrow (now BAE) - 2 2,300 ton corvettes for Malaysia built from the early 1990s to 1999.

BAE - 3 2,000 ton corvettes for Brunei built from 1995-200- Brunei decided to back out of the deal, a court decided BAE had fulfilled all of the contract and Brunei had to accept them, and Brunei put them up for sale - they were purchased by Indonesia.

BAE - 3 2,600 ton corvettes for Oman - last one delivered earlier this year.

BAE - 3 2,200 ton OPV for Trinidad & Tobago from 2007-2013 (T&T backed out, and the vessels were completed for Brazil).

BAE (and its Vospor subsidary) have been overseeing license-building of Vospor/BAE-designed FACs & OPVs in other nations from the early 1980s to present.
Babcock Marine are building 3 1,900 tonne Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPV's) for the Irish Naval Service. The first is which, LÉ (Long Éireannach/Irish Ship) Samuel Becket, has been delivered and is in service.

JAS
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Old 24th Oct 2014, 15:38
  #52 (permalink)  
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A partial list:

Vospor (now BAE) - 2 1,200 ton corvettes for Oman built 1993-1997.

Yarrow (now BAE) - 2 2,300 ton corvettes for Malaysia built from the early 1990s to 1999.

BAE - 3 2,000 ton corvettes for Brunei built from 1995-200- Brunei decided to back out of the deal, a court decided BAE had fulfilled all of the contract and Brunei had to accept them, and Brunei put them up for sale - they were purchased by Indonesia.

BAE - 3 2,600 ton corvettes for Oman - last one delivered earlier this year.

BAE - 3 2,200 ton OPV for Trinidad & Tobago from 2007-2013 (T&T backed out, and the vessels were completed for Brazil).

BAE (and its Vospor subsidary) have been overseeing license-building of Vospor/BAE-designed FACs & OPVs in other nations from the early 1980s to present.
Guess the british naval industry did sell ships after 1982, after all. Poor information on my side. Apologies.

Regarding the access to credit by Argentina, here´s some news. Yesterday the government managed to get something like U$S 980 at a 1,75% interest rate a year, over a two year period. The article in an economic argentinean paper:

El Gobierno emitió bono atado al dólar por u$s 983 millones - Ambito.com

Christian
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Old 24th Oct 2014, 20:04
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
Quote:
And tankers make nice fat targets.
So would the Gripen if there isn't a budget for pilot training.

You can buy and operate any number of decent jet fighters, but if your pilots aren't well trained and your operations coordinated with EW and radar, you may simply provide an enemy with target practice at your own considerable expense.
As the South Africans found out last year when they couldn't afford to maintain and fly their Gripens and were about to mothball half the fleet.

I believe they have now signed a new long term maintainance contract early this year (I wonder if they've paid for it yet?) with a Saab setup contractor to remedy this situation..??
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Old 25th Oct 2014, 00:24
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Why is the UK scared of the Argies???

You fought the Germans and re-armed them 10 years after the end of that big show...
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Old 25th Oct 2014, 06:12
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But the Germans weren't still trying to take possession of British overseas territories in the 1950s.

Argentina is still pushing its claim to that set of islands that they had fought the UK over 32 years ago.

{thanks for the push of the function-reset button, LTDT}

Last edited by GreenKnight121; 26th Oct 2014 at 01:52.
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Old 25th Oct 2014, 06:29
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over 32 years ago
Fixed it for you GreenKnight! Over 32 years! Crumbs, where do the years go
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Old 25th Oct 2014, 07:08
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Well the 13 colonies broke away with the help of some friends like France...
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Old 25th Oct 2014, 08:58
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I hope they're budgeting for some Hardened Aircraft Shelters too, otherwise pilot training and combat effectiveness will not enter into it should the day ever come... The RN will simply make them go away with some Tomahawks.
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Old 25th Oct 2014, 20:21
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Re. all the comments on Argentina's dire financial situation, spot on...but the real point is that as well as limiting Argentina's credit options, their financial crisis is the reason for the whole Malvinas pantomime being cranked out again
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Old 26th Oct 2014, 08:39
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which was exactly how the 1982 business started as well

I'd imagine these days a few sub-launched cruise missiles onto Rio Gallegos airfield (one of the worlds premier s***holes TBH) would stop things dead

and why would the Chinese give export credits for Swedish Aircraft built in Brazil?????/
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