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TSR2 at 50

Old 21st Feb 2015, 16:50
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Pr00ne ... 'murdered' or 'put-down' ... still a fine looking aircraft that would have taken a lot to beat ...
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Old 21st Feb 2015, 20:41
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Coff, pr00ne is totally right, the aircraft program was a mess and it was very unlikely to have been able to met the operational requirements as regards the Nav/attack system. It would have most likely been very easy to beat as it would have been in the hanger most of the time due to being a complete pig to maintain.
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Old 21st Feb 2015, 23:19
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wasn't murdered, it was put out of its misery.
.. y a w n ... zzz
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Old 22nd Feb 2015, 04:08
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MAINJAFAD,
Well, that didn't seem to be the consensus at that stage of its development.
And besides, a certain Roland Beaumont gave it eleven out of ten prior to its cancellation in favour of ballistic missiles.

The notorious Duncan Sandys, wasn't it?


We, in OZ, ended up having to buy its competitor, the GD F-111 which with upgrades, remained a potent projector until well into this century.


Oh, and 'hanger' is spelt HANGAR.

Last edited by Stanwell; 22nd Feb 2015 at 04:38.
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Old 22nd Feb 2015, 10:37
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Sandys' notorious defence white paper was '57.
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Old 22nd Feb 2015, 11:02
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and it's Beamont and not Beaumont....
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Old 22nd Feb 2015, 13:50
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Oh, OK, thanks guys.
Not having been a pom for many generations, I've had to admire your efforts from afar.

So, can you tell me who knocked the TSR2 on the head - and exactly why?
It showed such promise.

Anyway, I got the spelling of hangar right, didn't I?
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Old 22nd Feb 2015, 14:19
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Stanwell ...

This is worth a read

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/document...-Hindsight.pdf
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Old 23rd Feb 2015, 11:48
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Thanks CS, very interesting indeed.
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Old 23rd Feb 2015, 12:32
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The minutes of the cabinet meetings that led up to the cancellation are available online from the National Archives: I think CC(65)6, CC(65)20 and CC(65)21 from the CAB/128/39 file are probably the most relevant ones.
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Old 23rd Feb 2015, 17:28
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Coff,
Thanks so much for that link to "TSR2 with hindsight".
A fascinating read.
One phrase in that publication stood out - "An extraordinary and complex story".
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Old 23rd Feb 2015, 18:04
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They still had some very serious engine issues to overcome when it was killed off IIRC

pr00ne is right - put out of its misery
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Old 24th Feb 2015, 08:18
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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TSR-2 and why it was cancelled

This topic has been done to death many times on PPRuNe, but my article on TSR-2 and why it was cancelled can be found at http://www.spyflight.co.uk/tsr2.htm
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Old 24th Feb 2015, 08:53
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I never thought I'd have the opportunity to quote from 'Frozen' but this time is it.....'Let it go, Let it go!'..........
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Old 24th Feb 2015, 09:42
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Excellent article Heimdall old chum.
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Old 24th Feb 2015, 09:43
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Agreed - it's been a while now, and we've already seen other scandalous cancellations over the years

For good or bad, the latest was the Nimrod, and we are no nearer after 5 years to getting a replacement. The story of the TSR2 will be repeated into the future as well as Governments really don't learn from the past.
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Old 24th Feb 2015, 10:35
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Coff - great article.
Always thought the thing looked like something out of Thunderbirds with those anhedral wingtips.
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Old 24th Feb 2015, 13:21
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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"I liked the comment from Roland Beamont about engaging only one afterburner on the TSR 2 and then outrunning a EE Lighting with both engaged"

And with the airbrakes partially out as well (When I met Bee he told me that they could never be fully closed). Lovely man.
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Old 24th Feb 2015, 13:34
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A few useful points and observations from the TSR2 With Hindsight papers:

- A number of the writers thought that the aircraft suffered greatly from going to Mach 2 from the Mach 1.7 of the original EE design.
- The short/unprepared-runway requirement was also extremely expensive to meet. (When it was flying with the gear down it looked like an E-type with tractor tyres.)
- The description of the avionics system reminded me of what I had read about the F-111D's Mk2 avionics, which were also first-generation digital and did not work worth a toss. (The Es and Fs reverted to a lot of the F-111A kit.)
- Even if they all worked, the low-level blind bombing was not accurate enough to do much damage without recourse to Instant Sunshine, and nobody was planning to develop the required low-yield weapon.

But it was unquestionably an elegant aircraft, and it didn't take 20+ years either...
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Old 24th Feb 2015, 22:43
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The Henlow TSR2

There WAS a TSR2 stored at Henlow in the early 70s. I was a Flt Cdr at OCTU at the time, and wrote the OCTU contribution to the station magazine. When the TSR2 was moved from Henlow (I think to Cosford, but not sure about that) it was transported on a hovercraft trailer without wheels because the grass airfield was waterlogged, and apart from some Somerfield Tracking there were no taxiways. I therefore reported the fact in the magazine under the title "TSR2 Flies Again!". This appeared not to be a problem until a reporter from the local Hitchin newspaper saw the article and reproduced it in the public domain. This resulted in (yet another) "hats on - no coffee" interview with the Commandant which became a feature of my time there even after I became a Sqn Cdr.
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