MOD announces RAF Tornados in air on way to Iraq.
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MOD announces RAF Tornados in air on way to Iraq.
Just heard on Radio5 Live.
How nice. Just in case our targets have anything that could harm us, let's give them advanced warning so they can be REALLY prepared.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
More like treason, IMHO.
DN
How nice. Just in case our targets have anything that could harm us, let's give them advanced warning so they can be REALLY prepared.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
More like treason, IMHO.
DN
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The Tornado isn't exactly a subtle aircraft I would expect the enemy would figure out they are there quite quickly. Also air ops have been going for a while so I would expect if the enemy does have air defences they would already be deployed.
It has just been on BBC news. Its a wonder that the bloody press have not said what the target is neither given the N/A of the crews ?? just to help ISA and their friends (if they have any)?? 
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I must be missing something here.
What possible harm can the press be doing by stating the RAF are joining in?
The press are notorious for getting aircraft types wrong, and many journalists couldn't tell one weapon from another.....
Unlike the ISIS watchers who WILL be detailing every EXACT movement, departure time and weapon load which will then be relayed onwards.
Even if the aircraft fly off in a direction to confuse onlookers this doesn't work more than once or twice, as has been identified when attacking aircraft have done this in the past two decades.
IMHO its a bit odd to think that a very large group like ISIS who can capture large areas, run international media ops and PR and have many tech savvy members in the group wouldn't know how to watch an airfield
What possible harm can the press be doing by stating the RAF are joining in?
The press are notorious for getting aircraft types wrong, and many journalists couldn't tell one weapon from another.....
Unlike the ISIS watchers who WILL be detailing every EXACT movement, departure time and weapon load which will then be relayed onwards.
Even if the aircraft fly off in a direction to confuse onlookers this doesn't work more than once or twice, as has been identified when attacking aircraft have done this in the past two decades.
IMHO its a bit odd to think that a very large group like ISIS who can capture large areas, run international media ops and PR and have many tech savvy members in the group wouldn't know how to watch an airfield
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Barney, you have a point, but a weak one.
Compare and contrast;
Accredited BBC journalist broadcasts in real time on open source.
Covert jihadist supporter observes airfield and attempts timely transmission while voiding arrest by security services.
Compare and contrast;
Accredited BBC journalist broadcasts in real time on open source.
Covert jihadist supporter observes airfield and attempts timely transmission while voiding arrest by security services.
Barnstormer,
There is a principle at stake here, it's called OPSEC. We have a whole JSP devoted to security, shame the MOD sees fit to ignore it when they feel like it.
PN has it spot on, and this was a major problem we had to contend with in AFG with dickers sitting outside the wire watching everything we did send reporting it. Now in this case, I'll grant you, the operational impact is likely to be minimal, but that isn't the point and next time people might not be so lucky and whoever decided this was a good idea has demonstrated poor judgement.
So some gobby media type in MOD has decided a good headline trumps OPSEC. Where does it stop? I've seen people dragged up on charges for less serious security breaches - because this is what this is. Hitler knew we were coming, didn't mean we had to help him with video footage of preparations and the fleet launching. If they wanted to do something, they should have repeated 'I counted them out and back' once it was over. Fuming doesn't come close!
There is a principle at stake here, it's called OPSEC. We have a whole JSP devoted to security, shame the MOD sees fit to ignore it when they feel like it.
PN has it spot on, and this was a major problem we had to contend with in AFG with dickers sitting outside the wire watching everything we did send reporting it. Now in this case, I'll grant you, the operational impact is likely to be minimal, but that isn't the point and next time people might not be so lucky and whoever decided this was a good idea has demonstrated poor judgement.
So some gobby media type in MOD has decided a good headline trumps OPSEC. Where does it stop? I've seen people dragged up on charges for less serious security breaches - because this is what this is. Hitler knew we were coming, didn't mean we had to help him with video footage of preparations and the fleet launching. If they wanted to do something, they should have repeated 'I counted them out and back' once it was over. Fuming doesn't come close!
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Maybe it is disinformation. Or perhaps they'd already been & gone before the announcement was made. At least I hope that's the case.
Lt-Col Jones, CO 2 PARA on Op CORPORATE was said to be incandescent that the MOD had briefed the world that Goose Green was to be attacked, before it actually was. Rumour has it that if he hadn't been killed in that action, he had intended to take it further.
Lt-Col Jones, CO 2 PARA on Op CORPORATE was said to be incandescent that the MOD had briefed the world that Goose Green was to be attacked, before it actually was. Rumour has it that if he hadn't been killed in that action, he had intended to take it further.
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I think it's simply called 'political grandstanding'.
See, we're going to sort this whole mess out with everything at our disposal (7 GR4s).
Now, do you all have your flags ready to wrap yourselves in?
I think it's simply called 'political grandstanding'.
See, we're going to sort this whole mess out with everything at our disposal (7 GR4s).
Now, do you all have your flags ready to wrap yourselves in?
Shack,
It all looked very well planned and coordinated, right down to getting the crews to walk to the jets with helmets on and visors down to protect their identity followed by shots of the jets taxiing and getting wheels up. Ironically accompanied by some Sky commentary on how we were at war again.
This wasn't an accident or an inadvertent leak, someone knew exactly what they were doing.
It all looked very well planned and coordinated, right down to getting the crews to walk to the jets with helmets on and visors down to protect their identity followed by shots of the jets taxiing and getting wheels up. Ironically accompanied by some Sky commentary on how we were at war again.
This wasn't an accident or an inadvertent leak, someone knew exactly what they were doing.
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In a couple of my more interesting non-ATC appointments, the basic principle of STFU applied.
But then I never had to work with the Media, thank <Deity>.
But then I never had to work with the Media, thank <Deity>.
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As this thread appears to have started some 3.5 hours after the jets had left Akrotiri (they returned an hour or so ago) I can't see it being much of a security issue.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
It's called "being seen to be doing something". Very popular with Governments who have no real clue how to get out of a situation largely of their own creation.
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Originally Posted by Melchett01
We have a whole JSP devoted to security, shame the MOD sees fit to ignore it when they feel like it.
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This is 2014 guys. If you think you can send a load of jets somewhere secretly, you're living on another planet. Even if you could, the media war is part of the real war.
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ShotOne, why can't you?
Why couldn't offensive operations be conducted covertly over Iraq by the RAF? How would media coverage of offensive operations while they are ongoing benefit us against ISIL? I am genuinely interested.
I understand the need for diplomatic clearance and without said clearance, military aircraft flying in to another's airspace while armed could be construed as an act of war..... although didn't the RAF already have diplomatic clearance? Or does the RAF need separate clearance when the aircraft is armed?
Why couldn't offensive operations be conducted covertly over Iraq by the RAF? How would media coverage of offensive operations while they are ongoing benefit us against ISIL? I am genuinely interested.
I understand the need for diplomatic clearance and without said clearance, military aircraft flying in to another's airspace while armed could be construed as an act of war..... although didn't the RAF already have diplomatic clearance? Or does the RAF need separate clearance when the aircraft is armed?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
From a media POV they want to publish the FIRST flights. In GW2 they showed the first Tornado missions and then repeated the footage for 3 days.
This is 2014 guys. If you think you can send a load of jets somewhere secretly, you're living on another planet. Even if you could, the media war is part of the real war.