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Scottish Defence Force?

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Scottish Defence Force?

Old 8th Sep 2014, 17:58
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Steady, Mel. Just an observation. The French question is a concern, but as of today we are officially French residents with the rights that brings. But we are still British. My question was really about working so hard for independence and then wanting another country's passport.

As I see it, the vote will go through and will be followed by years of negotiation to find the best arrangement for both nations.

Harry, I like to think that even the British public aren't stupid enough to resent a Scottish accent in London. This thing is happening and you will all find that there will will plenty of folk that carry on as normal.

Last edited by Courtney Mil; 8th Sep 2014 at 18:09.
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Old 8th Sep 2014, 18:06
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Ha, wasn't having a pop at you Courtney. I think there are parallels to be drawn between the independence referendum and any EU vote, but I guess that's for a different thread and another time.
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Old 8th Sep 2014, 18:14
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Yeah, there are parallels, Mel. But I guess we'll all get through. I doubt either referendum will ultimately do any of us any good, but if you consider that even Germany is now pressing for an EU exit, or at least starting to talk about it, there may not even be one for Scotland to join. Then we really are back to the drawing board!

Oh well, we'll just keep living the dream here. Best way, I think.
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Old 8th Sep 2014, 18:20
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Addendum: as an illustration of how stupid this whole argument has become, this headline should make you all cringe with embarrassment. Pointless for Salmond to have said it that way and pointless for the press or anyone else to want to make an issue of it.

'Shameless' Salmond accused of playing politics with Royal baby joy after congratulating 'Earl and Countess of Strathearn' | Mail Online
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Old 8th Sep 2014, 21:21
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Why would I want to delete my posts, Perthsaint? My posts are not in the least inflammatory and, in my opinion, hardly supporting one side or the other. 1.3VStall's post can only be expected, given the circumstances. And this supposed to be about Mil Av. A little thread drift on this subject is only to be expected, but there is a limit.

So please don't bring the anger and divisiveness to this forum.
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Old 8th Sep 2014, 21:23
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Oh, you've gone. Good. Now to reasoned debate...
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Old 8th Sep 2014, 21:46
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Thank goodness for that!
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Old 8th Sep 2014, 22:37
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History repeats itself...

Remember 1776 chaps...
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Old 8th Sep 2014, 22:42
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Er, no, I don't. Remind me.
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Old 8th Sep 2014, 22:54
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Has anyone any idea WTF this has to do with Brown

BBC News - Scottish independence: Brown sets out more powers timetable

He is putting himself on this self appointed pedestal and saying if it is a no vote we will transfer more power to Scotland... Let me get this right, if it is a yes vote it's Adios Brown as his MP position will disappear.. So is this why he is making promises that are not his to make?




..

Last edited by NutLoose; 9th Sep 2014 at 01:01.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 00:24
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So is this why he is making promises that are not his to make?
When did that ever stop him?
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 06:52
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No, it because of a variety of reasons:

Brown is still well regarded amongst a section of the Scottish electorate.
Labour voters, especially those who regard Brown well, are those believed to be moving from 'No' to "Yes'.
English politicians are loathed by that section of the electorate.

Therefore, get Brown to lead the charge, providing more comfort to the people they want to win over.

Maybe, perhaps maybe, you aren't the intended recipient of the message?
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 07:15
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Brown was out of his depth after that slimy little creep Bliar handed him the reins of office. But his recent proposals and manner mark him out as being rather more statesman-like and credible than that startled badger Darling.

Darling has probably done more to persuade people to change their opinions and to support Salmond's Scottish National Socialist Braveheart rubbish than anyone else.

Even Westminster now agrees with Brown's statements - but are they too late?
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 07:39
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So is this why he is making promises that are not his to make?
Cameron can't say anything new due to the pre-vote purdah. Darling is seen as damaged goods by the BT camp. Alistair Carmichael is seen by the electorate here as "Alistair who?" (purdah issue also applies). The press south of the border have no idea who Johann lamont is, leaving A.N.Other 'big gun' required. I guess Gordon's diary is mostly free these days...

Pointless for Salmond to have said it that way and pointless for the press or anyone else to want to make an issue of it.
I too would like to express my congrats' to Lady Strathearn and His Royal Highness. Problem with my use of the constitutionally correct terms applicable in my country, anyone? No? Jolly good.

Anyway, I still think a couple of dozen of these will do nicely...

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Old 9th Sep 2014, 09:30
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the pre-vote purdah
Interesting you bring this up rab-k. Should the vote go YES I wonder whether there will there be a similar version of pre-independence day "purdah" in place (from the 18th onwards)?

Speaking from a purely military point of view would the MOD be permitted to re-locate any assets (and even any personnel ) from or to an independent-in-waiting Scotland? Would any pre-planned re-organisation / moves planned for the next 18 months or so have to be stopped until negotiations are complete? Whilst the SNP have declared a future iScotland will be nuclear free I'm sure they will wish to use Trident/Faslane as a bargaining chip of some sort.

Clearly this subject is relevant across all of the public sector (civil servants etc) but as this is the military board.....

PS And I'm sure the Duke of Rothesay is happy at becoming a grandpa again
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 10:23
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Wrath - all good questions and once again, those directly affected don't have the answers. Seems the whole matter is being run on a 'just-in-time' basis, i.e don't bother planning and informing those affected of possible effects of indy vote. Just leave it until it is needed. Fine as a way of demonstrating that you don't agree with the possible outcome, but not what you'd expect from a Defence force surely? Maybe if all the UK Govt departments had published their plans (if they have any) for after a yes vote, a few more nats might realise the implications for their country (not that the trivial details of planning to run an independent country seem to bother them).
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 10:37
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Why should the people who risk their lives defending the nation not have the same right as every other citizen to decide where they will leave, should the Union fracture? If a serving member wishes to move to Scotland, they should be allowed to go. Likewise, there can be no right to demand that any are forced to live in Scotland should they not wish to. iScotland can demand all the equipment they wish, but cannot force the people currently manning it to accept a forced move to what will become a foreign country (ignoring ITAR that might restrict what equipment iScot can have), or the rUK demand that they remain in the UK. I wonder how many would wish to move to a smaller Scottish Defence Force.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 10:53
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to my knowledge - which is Royal Artillery rather than a 'Scottish' regiment, the answer is fcuk all.

more than one person has opined that being the Edinburgh Gunner for life might be a passport to free sex with tourists, but none of the scots i know and who i've talked about it with are remotely interested.

they see two issues - firstly that they joined the Army for an adventurous life with lots of overseas travel, and the don't see there being any chance of that in an iScotland, and secondly they take the veiw that defence is going to take an absolute hammering in an iScotland - like down to Irish spending levels.

i have heard - so heresay - that its more popular (though not even close to 25% of their Scottish soldiers) in some of the RRS Infantry Bn's, though theres a number of splits: pretty much no Officers are interested, some S/NCO's are considering the merits of an easy life based near home, and the junior ranks are split between those who want to go on tour and those who fancy being posted to Edinburgh for the next 20 years.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 12:51
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Burritto

I don't disagree with your points about who serves with who and those that wish to serve in a Scottish Armed Forces will, I'm sure, be given the opportunity to transfer - although, don't forget many have "signed up" to serve the UK Armed Forces for a set period of years and may (I don't know - I don't think anyone knows....) be forced to leave under PVR terms should they wish to transfer (as does anyone who transfers to a commonwealth armed force) at any time other than at the end of their "contract". Exigencies of the Service or something like it I believe.

But in the interim period servicemen and women will no doubt have to "do as they are told". Those who definitely do not wish to serve in the Scottish Armed Forces are unlikely to have the option to 'move south' straight away and should the MOD decide to start relocating forces south, or cancel Germany redeployments north, then there will be cries of 'foul'. You can also guarantee that a lot of the planned refurbishment/upgrade budget assigned to Scottish military bases (or at least 92% of it) will be put on hold until the size and scale of any future Scottish Armed Force has been decided.

Oh, and as one final small hand grenade - in which country is the Joint Personnel Administration Centre (the people who will co-ordinate a lot of the post-split re-org) based.....
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 20:20
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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I always thought purdah applied only to the civil service not the pollies themselves.

Tom
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