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Scottish Defence Force?

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Scottish Defence Force?

Old 11th Sep 2014, 06:59
  #201 (permalink)  
HTB
 
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Scottie

You seem to have managed to read into my post something that is not there. I made no comment on the content of the article, or whether the author's conclusions are accurate or not, so your first two questions are supefluous.

You do not, as you have observed, know my military background, and I don't know yours, so I can't assess your views based on your "knowledge and undestanding" (not that I'm particularly interested in your views anyway). So, assume what you like about "derision" vs "humour", and try to acquire a banter detector, please.


Punctuation: I used two colons, a full stop and an equals sign; the punctuation in the definitions is copy and paste from on-line dictionaries. What's wrong with that?

You will note that there are no unnecessary exclamation marks in my post...and elipsis has only three full stops!!

What was that about glass houses?

The use of "Daily Bellylaugh" was widespread in the crewrooms that I frequented (usually generated by reading the letters page), and for what it's worth, I read it every day (but only for the crosswords you understand...). But you have missed the point of the lightly jocular "castigation" (rather a strong word for a passing observation) of the misuse (not mis-spelling) of "throws" instead of "throes"; that the definitions do reflect the reportage of events surrounding the independence debate.

If you're not trolling, beam me up.

Mister B
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 08:41
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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LF

The most well balanced and reasoned appraisal I have read anywhere online, BZ.

I desperately want the Scots on the team. But as you say, if they think differently, we move on. I just hope that if there is a narrow no we are not going to be doing this again in 5 years. If you are in the team, play for the team.

PG

Last edited by PeterGee; 11th Sep 2014 at 10:08.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 08:49
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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PG,

I share the same fear as you. It is looking increasingly likely that there will be a narrow "No" victory, but the legacy of that will be an ongoing SNP boil on the backside of Scotland. Witness Canada and Quebec!
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 08:53
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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The most well balanced and reasoned appraisal I have read anywhere online, BZ.

Absolutely concur. Sadly, amongst the many knowns versus unknowns that currently exist, the level of division between families, neighbours and friends over the yes/no vote has already become apparent. Regardless of which direction Scotland takes, the damage has already been done in many cases and no doubt will take a generation or so before it calms down. Damned if you do, damned if you don't!
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 12:22
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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"Scotland will become another Eire. Doesn't need Typhoons/C-17's etc. A couple of fisheries machines for MPA. A non-agression pact with Russia/UK/Viking land etc and a wee dram to boot..."

I think the difference between Ireland and Scotland is that the Scots want to keep their current head of state.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 12:35
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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Given the proud history of the Scots in the military service of the United Kingdom, in the event of a YES vote, will Scottish citizens be given the opportunity to serve in the rUK armed services on terms similar to the Gurkhas
Given the current recruiting statistics of the Scottish Regts, I sincerely doubt it. Either that or the British Forces will be full of Scots whilst the Scottish Defence Force will be full of Fijians. Still should make the Scottish Defence Force Army Section quite invincible in the Cross Border Inter Services Rugby matches!
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 13:10
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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What about the maritime defence of rUK northern and north-western approaches?
With no rUK airfields in Scotland, and hundreds of extra miles to fly, what can be done?

The last two World Wars included U-boat campaigns to cut off UK from food and materials. We even considered taking back the Irish Treaty ports at that time
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 16:52
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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Wouldn't the boundaries of rUK airspace automatically move South? If Soviet (oops, I mean Russian) aircraft overfly Scottish airspace to the North, or East or West for that matter, what concern will that be of rUK defence forces? Presumably money would have to be found to open up an airfield in Northern Ireland - have they built houses on Ballykelly yet?

Last edited by Tankertrashnav; 11th Sep 2014 at 18:04.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 18:31
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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Tayside aviation and the Air Training Corps

So, on the understanding that in the event of a yes vote, the Air Training Corps (ATC) will close and all the assets of the Air Cadet Organisation (ACO) including the three Volunteer Gliding School aircraft will all be withdrawn south to the rUK (unless, of course, agreement is made in that the aircraft will become the core of the new Sc A F.) in addition, the permanent members of staff at the Scotland and Northern Ireland region HQ in Edinburgh will either be made redundant or be offered a posting to a new Northern Ireland region HQ. That's 84 Squadrons, with, say, thirty cadets each totalling about 2500 cadets, and about six or so adult staff in each sqn. That's about 500 staff. Add to this the Army and Sea Cadets and it looks like a large swathe of the youth and adult volunteers in Scotland are about to be royally shafted. Oh! I nearly forgot, I suspect that Tayside Aviation may be similarly shafted, as there ain't gonna be no cadets to train. (For info: I was a cadet from 1963 - 67, RAF from 69-91' ATC adult staff from 91 - 08 incl 12 yrs as CGI on Vigilants. (A very stealthy ac!)
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 18:54
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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"the difference between Ireland and Scotland is that the Scots want to keep their current head of state."

Not at all convinced by the separatists line on the Monarchy or NATO. Given the pandering to gain left wing support, who's to say that further referenda might not take place to finally decide. The only thing certain with a Yes vote is that from then on, nothing is!
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 21:04
  #211 (permalink)  

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I suspect there will be a regular trade in boats going from "somewhere on the French coast" to "somewhere on the Scottish coast" carrying the illegals from Calais. The English/Scottish border is a lot more porous that the Channel.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 22:06
  #212 (permalink)  
 
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Herod, you must be nuts. That will be the last thing that happens. And if it did, the authorities should step in.
Now that the British establishment have woken up and are trying to make a fight of it, the vote perhaps is swinging back to a closer 50/50.
Devo Max must be more likely now than ever, but with a rejection of that by the English shires? (On funding grounds and the West Lothian question, if they are not the same)?
Some pretty nasty invective has flown about which will take many years to not heal at all.
Rest of the world out here seems a bit aghast and for a small island we haven't done ourselves any favours at all.
We seem further away than ever to being a United Kingdom. A lot of selfishness has been exposed.
I'm actually morbidly curious to now see what the train crash would actually look like if we do split.
No Queen (despite what the toad said a few days ago, she wont last long).
Grouse moors, Salmon rivers given back to the people. Posh English Heids stuck on spikes along the A1. Stuff the nat. debt and keep the last of the oil. Betcha? I think I would like to see it sometimes.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 22:41
  #213 (permalink)  
 
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This is a democratic process and the will of the people should prevail.
So it is likely just over 2 million people (50% of the 4 million Scottish registered voters) and therefore only about 3.2% of the population of UK will determine the future of the UK. Is that REALLY democracy?

ensuring that not one penny more of my taxes and share of UK assets is transferred to iS than absolutely has to be.
I totally agree, but in addition whichever way the vote goes, it is going to cost UK a fortune and I resent the fact that a small minority of the UK population can impose such a financial burden on the rest of us. I am not talking about financial fluctuations here, but the actual cost of separation.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 22:52
  #214 (permalink)  
 
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Hmm, yes. Good points, nimbev.
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Old 12th Sep 2014, 09:07
  #215 (permalink)  

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Herod, you must be nuts. That will be the last thing that happens. And if it did, the authorities should step in.
That would be the same authorities that don't know how many illegals are in the country at present? The French won't stop them; they are only too glad to see the back of them. Short of stopping and searching every yacht and fishing boat transiting the channel, what can the "authorities" do?
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Old 12th Sep 2014, 09:22
  #216 (permalink)  
 
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So it is likely just over 2 million people (50% of the 4 million Scottish registered voters) and therefore only about 3.2% of the population of UK will determine the future of the UK. Is that REALLY democracy?
If 100% of the Scottish electorate voted for independence but the rest of the UK voted against it, meaning the Scots had to stay (despite voting unanimously to leave) would that really be democracy?

If you're still unsure, swap out the word 'Scotland' for 'the UK' and 'the rest of the UK' for 'the rest of Europe', and replace 'voted for independence' with 'voted to leave the EU', and then ask yourself the same question.
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Old 12th Sep 2014, 13:11
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Tayside aviation and the Air Training Corps

Excellent point ACW342. The SNP's white paper (or their election manifesto for an imaginary Scotland as I think of it) says almost nothing on the subject of cadet forces. It's obviously a subject they know and care about even less than the miltary in general...
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Old 12th Sep 2014, 13:31
  #218 (permalink)  
 
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No offence XR219, but when you're looking to forge a newly independent nation I can't imagine that the issue of cadets features too highly in your list of priorities.

It's obviously a subject they know and care about even less than the military in general...
Well, yes. I'd guess so.
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Old 12th Sep 2014, 15:05
  #219 (permalink)  
 
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forge a newly independent nation
I think that is bestowing a little too much flattery on Mr Salmond and his pals!
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Old 12th Sep 2014, 18:44
  #220 (permalink)  
 
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I cannot wait for a "no" vote and We Heck disappearing into the insignificance he warrants, and the United kingdom can then concentrate on pursuing the recovery it is achieving better than most other nations. It is a pointless distraction we can all do without. I do wonder though why the "yes" lot assume that if they fail this time they can come back for another bite, which I am sure they would not afford the "Better Together" faction, were the decision be "yes".
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