Hawk 40th Anniversary
HS1182
Well, the original idea had been to replace the Gnat in the advanced training role....with the Jaguar! I can just remember seeing a poster in about 1968 which showed a Jaguar in grey and dayglo......
Fortunately They realised that it would be far too complex, so along came an Air Staff Requirement which led to the HS1182.
The original name was to have been 'Tercel' - a male falcon. Fortunately They said No - so HS1182 became the Hawk T Mk 1.
Fortunately They realised that it would be far too complex, so along came an Air Staff Requirement which led to the HS1182.The original name was to have been 'Tercel' - a male falcon. Fortunately They said No - so HS1182 became the Hawk T Mk 1.
Originally Posted by gzornenplatz
The dangerous period was when the Hawk was training pilots for the older jets. It just did not have the same swept-wing characteristics and meant that the OCU instructors had to spend more time teaching them on the operational aircraft.
The urban myth
Courtney, I think you're forgetting the intervening stage of TWU on the Hunter, a true swept wing aircraft until replaced by the Hawk.
I was a QFI on the F4 OCU so I saw how the Hawk FTS/Hawk TWU guys had problems with the concept of varying stages of buffet.
I was a QFI on the F4 OCU so I saw how the Hawk FTS/Hawk TWU guys had problems with the concept of varying stages of buffet.
No, I'm talking about straight through Hawk guys. I did fly the Hunter as a holding perk, but I don't accept that learning about buffet in the F4 was a difficult concept to grasp.
Edit: strange though it may seem to you, the buffet levels in the F-15 are so similar to the F-4 that any F-4 pilot would recognise the stable the Eagle came from. But T-38 graduates had no problem whatsoever in recognising F-15 buffet levels. Yes, I know the differences, just an illustration.
Edit: strange though it may seem to you, the buffet levels in the F-15 are so similar to the F-4 that any F-4 pilot would recognise the stable the Eagle came from. But T-38 graduates had no problem whatsoever in recognising F-15 buffet levels. Yes, I know the differences, just an illustration.
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 22nd Aug 2014 at 21:57.
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Phil Frawley. RAAF Hawk Instructor.
Phil has the distinction of being the Guiness Book of Records "Oldest Active Fighter Pilot".
He had this to say at the time, during 2013. As far as I am aware he still flys the Hawk at age 62 +.
‘Let’s get one thing straight. I’m not special. I’m just
myself – one who loves flying fast jets; focused on
shared thinking and positive pilot training outcomes. It’s
simple. Young pilot minds ‘get it’ when you understand
their fertile thinking. It’s the ability to identify the needs
of those around you. Communication and humility – it’s
not hard!
- SQNLDR Phil Frawley, Active Reserve Pilot, March 2013.
He had this to say at the time, during 2013. As far as I am aware he still flys the Hawk at age 62 +.
‘Let’s get one thing straight. I’m not special. I’m just
myself – one who loves flying fast jets; focused on
shared thinking and positive pilot training outcomes. It’s
simple. Young pilot minds ‘get it’ when you understand
their fertile thinking. It’s the ability to identify the needs
of those around you. Communication and humility – it’s
not hard!
- SQNLDR Phil Frawley, Active Reserve Pilot, March 2013.
Last edited by Old Fella; 23rd Aug 2014 at 08:30.
I still recall one "swept wing" lesson on the Gnat "Don't tighten the final turn". I did one day, having been blown in toward the runway by a stronger cross wind than I had allowed for. As we sank like a lift, me fresh out of ideas, a Rhodesian voice in the back said two things - "I have control" and after he had unloaded and rolled level - " If you had been on your own, you would be adjectival dead". Never forgot, and even now as I turn final in a glider, VW (with whom I am back in touch) is sitting on my shoulder whispering "Don't tighten the turn"
T-45 Goshawk spin off
Often wondered why they settled for twin nose wheels on the USN variant of the Hawk, maybe the extra load of carrier landing and takeoff?
Nice video here of rookies making they first landing on.
Angle of Attack - Excerpt 1 from Thomas Lennon Films on Vimeo
Nice video here of rookies making they first landing on.
Angle of Attack - Excerpt 1 from Thomas Lennon Films on Vimeo
THE PISSPOT SONG
The trouble with Hawk blokes is they don't understand
That to fly in a Hunter it takes a sharp hand-
So stick to your Pisspots and pull 7G
You can pull all you like but you'll never catch me!
You sit on the runway awaiting the kick
But the engine's so gutless it just makes me sick-
450's the limit with pylons hung under
If you wanna go quickly, you must fly the Hunter!
Can you tell me the problem, oh why's it so slow?
I opened the throttle and it just doesn't go!
I aborted the takeoff, Oh why can it be?
I got overtaken by a JP Mk 3!
The blue note is unique, a sound we all love
We've decided to rename the Hawk the Dove!
It's slow and it's boring, in fact it's real tame,
So come fly the Hunter, now that's a real game!
The sound of the Adour's like a fart in the bath.
You say that it's powerfull, well don't make me laugh!
It's like half a Jaguar and that's bad enough!
Your sure to get lost when your TACAN goes duff!
But the Hunter's not magic, it always breaks down.
The best bit is getting your feet on the ground.
And that is the end of our little refrain,
So I'll open my bottle and get pissed again!
Not sure of the tune but maybe someone can enlighten us?
The trouble with Hawk blokes is they don't understand
That to fly in a Hunter it takes a sharp hand-
So stick to your Pisspots and pull 7G
You can pull all you like but you'll never catch me!
You sit on the runway awaiting the kick
But the engine's so gutless it just makes me sick-
450's the limit with pylons hung under
If you wanna go quickly, you must fly the Hunter!
Can you tell me the problem, oh why's it so slow?
I opened the throttle and it just doesn't go!
I aborted the takeoff, Oh why can it be?
I got overtaken by a JP Mk 3!
The blue note is unique, a sound we all love
We've decided to rename the Hawk the Dove!
It's slow and it's boring, in fact it's real tame,
So come fly the Hunter, now that's a real game!
The sound of the Adour's like a fart in the bath.
You say that it's powerfull, well don't make me laugh!
It's like half a Jaguar and that's bad enough!
Your sure to get lost when your TACAN goes duff!
But the Hunter's not magic, it always breaks down.
The best bit is getting your feet on the ground.
And that is the end of our little refrain,
So I'll open my bottle and get pissed again!
Not sure of the tune but maybe someone can enlighten us?
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It's funny how folk that never flew an aircraft can be such experts about
If you think this thread is bad there is another kicking about full of virologists and other allied health professionals who apparently trained at the Daily Mail School of Nursing and Medicine.
All this brings back memories of HSA Brough in the early 70's, writing the production test schedule for the flying controls in the Hawk wing and wondering how much backlash to allow in the flap linkage.
Watching Tom Robinson battering the undercarriage doors on the first wing with a big hammer in an attempt to meet the steps and gaps limits.
Listening to Eric Lewis from Brough arguing with Bill Allen and Marshall Smith from Kingston about the need to seal the ribs that separated the collector tank from the wing tanks. They didn't believe Eric when he said it was necessary or the fuel would not transfer properly. It tooks lots of PRC and someone with long arms to fix the first wing when we finally started to test it.
Watching XX154 fly at Farnborough and thinking theres a bit of me up there.
Alrthough I thought I had retired from Brough for ever at the end of 2009, in a few weeks time I will be starting my third session as a contractor in the same department I worked in 40 years ago. In all the time that Flight Systems Department has been in existence at Brough, now over 50 years, there have only been 5 heads of the dept, (and I wasnt one of them)
Walbut
Watching Tom Robinson battering the undercarriage doors on the first wing with a big hammer in an attempt to meet the steps and gaps limits.
Listening to Eric Lewis from Brough arguing with Bill Allen and Marshall Smith from Kingston about the need to seal the ribs that separated the collector tank from the wing tanks. They didn't believe Eric when he said it was necessary or the fuel would not transfer properly. It tooks lots of PRC and someone with long arms to fix the first wing when we finally started to test it.
Watching XX154 fly at Farnborough and thinking theres a bit of me up there.
Alrthough I thought I had retired from Brough for ever at the end of 2009, in a few weeks time I will be starting my third session as a contractor in the same department I worked in 40 years ago. In all the time that Flight Systems Department has been in existence at Brough, now over 50 years, there have only been 5 heads of the dept, (and I wasnt one of them)
Walbut
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As a keen young Air Cadet ... many, many years ago ... I still remember an utterly enthralling lecture on the Hawk given by a certain F/L John Thrope. I believe he had just started (must have been early/mid 70's) on the Hawk Test Programme at Boscombe Down. I met him again at RAF Manston some years later when he dropped in with a Hawk for the weekend (he came from Deal Kent and went to school in Dover). A wonderful and most generous Gentleman.
I believe he was later promoted to Group Captain ... But sadly no longer with us.
I believe he was later promoted to Group Captain ... But sadly no longer with us.