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IRAQ 3?

Old 27th Sep 2014, 20:21
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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An MP who does understand: the RAF's fast-jet force has shrunk below critical mass

ZZZZZZZZZZ

Last edited by ATFQ; 5th Jun 2016 at 08:14.
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 21:52
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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This link is worth a read - and is accurate
Though I don't pretend to be an expert in philosophical international evolution of western society, I'm presuming the reason for the present state of our armed forces is straight forward.

You are still thinking on the fact that your a sovereign country and your armed forces should be able to stand on their own. I presume the long term trend, though not official is leading towards an integrated defense force.

Another words any enemy who is big enough to worry you with what you have, will not be confronted alone.
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Old 28th Sep 2014, 10:02
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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Oh lord, don't say Galloway has a point again. How many sharp end aircraft do we have? 200 odd? How many do the Saudis have? 700 odd?
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Old 28th Sep 2014, 23:10
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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rh200,

Your #202:

"Another words any enemy who is big enough to worry you with what you have, will not be confronted alone".

Sorry to rain on your parade, but that's what we thought 75 years ago. Didn't work out quite that way.
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Old 28th Sep 2014, 23:30
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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Rh200,

That's all fine and dandy thinking when you believe you are confronting a common enemy in a conventional military situation. I wonder how long the western governments, like our own, will be keen to throw our assets at Iraq/Syria when we start to see the likes of the attack on Lee Rigby as a regular occurrence in our own country. From the lies of Bliar to the incompetence of our migration management, we have managed to import a large fifth column that will no doubt make its mark, should we upset their pals in the desert. As Danny 42c says, we (our political leadership) certainly failed to see the threat of Hitler in the late 30s. Thankfully, we were not taking on an enemy with a large Trojan horse sat in our country at that time. I fear that the involvement in Iraq, and possibly Syria, is more of a diversion from the real threat, building steadily on our home front.

Smudge
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Old 29th Sep 2014, 01:33
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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smujsmith what you've said is so politically incorrect on so many levels. That doesn't make you wrong, though.
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Old 29th Sep 2014, 01:37
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry to rain on your parade, but that's what we thought 75 years ago. Didn't work out quite that way.
Not my parade, I didn't say it was right or wrong, just that I think thats the general strategies.

Whether its wise or not, is a different analysis, of which the outcome will be in several fronts, a glass half empty, glass half full and then a logical analysis, which will of course be overshadowed by the other two
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Old 29th Sep 2014, 02:24
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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Smudge,

Not quite what I meant. We started off with one ally (France) in '39. Then there was the blitzkrieg and by spring '40 we had none.

(Of course all the Dominions sprang instantly to our side # - but they could do little for the moment but look after their own back yards). It was not until December '41 that the US suddenly awoke one day and found, rather to its surprise, that overnight it had got two wars for the price of one (and neither of its own doing). Then we had a real Ally. (Churchill recounts that "he went to bed that night and slept the sleep of the saved and thankful").

Of course, the Russians were de facto our allies, but they were rather busy with one A.Hitler at the time and for quite a while after.

Note # (Could we be certain of the same thing happening today if need arose ? I hope so !) D.

(rh200, we were at cross purposes - hope this clears up the misunderstanding! D.)

Last edited by Danny42C; 29th Sep 2014 at 02:26. Reason: Typo.
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Old 30th Sep 2014, 18:26
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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"We started off with one ally (France) in '39."

Don't run that line past my Polish builder..................
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Old 30th Sep 2014, 20:08
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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Heathrow Harry,

Sorry ! (who could forget their gallant, doomed fight on two fronts), and the part their pilots played in the Battle of Britain, and the Free Polish Army and Navy who managed to get to Britain.

But I was thinking of Allies "still standing", as it were. In the same way as the Poles, we had Belgian, Dutch, Danish, Norwegian, Greek (have I left anyone out ?) Allies.

Just about all the crowned heads left in Europe were bunkered down in London. We were saluting all manner of strange Officers. There was an apocryphal tale that, later in the war, a pair of RAF Intelligence Officers dressed up as Luftwaffe Leutnants and went marching round the West End, collecting salutes, for quite a while until someone said: "Half a mo !" and called a Constable.
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Old 30th Sep 2014, 23:45
  #211 (permalink)  
 
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Danny,

I wouldn't argue the toss, you were there, and I wasn't. I certainly am not trying to gainsay your post. But, I rather suspect that as pressures built (politically) in the lead up to WW2 we had rather a lot of support (certainly our former empire). Gaining a pilots Brevet in WW2 Bears testament to that. And even now we see the Aussies putting a significant effort in to the Iraq IS problem. I'm sure, had the politicians not ripped the teethe out of the modern RAF our contribution could have been more significant than it currently is (notwithstanding GR4 capability). One thing for sure, in your day, mine and currently, political cost cutting comes to the fore when hardware and people are put in peril. I just hope the personnel involved all come home safely.

Smudge
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Old 1st Oct 2014, 01:19
  #212 (permalink)  
 
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Smudge,

I think we've got our wires crossed a bit ! Of course, all the Dominions were behind us to a man in 1939. But they weren't our Allies - they were us ! There was no question in anybody's mind that they would even dream of doing anything else.

My faint concern was whether the same would hold good tomorrow (South Africa ?) if the need arose.

The "Wild Colonial Boys" were renowned in the RAF ! (The New Zealanders in particular punched far above their weight in population).

D.
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Old 1st Oct 2014, 20:25
  #213 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Danny,

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, what did you fly in '39-'45?

T93.


PS: Thank you for your service.
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Old 2nd Oct 2014, 00:21
  #214 (permalink)  
 
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Typhoon93,

Glad to have been of Service.

In order, then:

(USA)

Stearman PT-17
Vultee Valiant BT-13
AT6A (Harvard)

(UK)

Miles Master I, III
Hurricane I #
Spitfire I and II

(INDIA, BURMA)

Vultee Vengeance I, II, III
P-47 Thunderbolt II #

(Post war UK)

Tiger Moth
Harvard II (again)
Spitfire XIV, # XVI, XXII#
Meteor 4, T7
Balliol II #
Vampire III, V

(# - only briefly)

That's all, folks. Danny.
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Old 2nd Oct 2014, 03:20
  #215 (permalink)  
 
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Wow, that's an impressive list. Thanks, Danny.

Every so often I get the Lancaster and if I am really lucky, the Spitfire and Hurricane from BBMF fly over my house on finals to refuel at the local airport.
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Old 3rd Dec 2014, 03:48
  #216 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like the old Phantom has got some action. Regardless of what I think of the Iranians, I wish them luck.
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Old 3rd Dec 2014, 06:18
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Now, if I was in the IRoIAF, I'd really, really want to let the US know that I was coming through and attacking ISIS targets, just to avoid any, ahem, misunderstandings.
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Old 3rd Dec 2014, 08:51
  #218 (permalink)  
 
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Although both the US and Iran are currently denying direct co-operation with each other, it's an intriguing thought to wonder who is talking to who behind the scenes in the latest coalition. Liaison officers??

On a separate note, I understand that IS/ISIS/ISIL has now been formally rebranded (at least in military circles) as Da'eash (pronounced Daish). It is allegedely a derogatory Arabic term for 'poncey terrorist scumbags' or words to that effect....
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Old 3rd Dec 2014, 08:57
  #219 (permalink)  
 
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A Splash and Da'eash then.
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Old 3rd Dec 2014, 09:35
  #220 (permalink)  
 
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Although both the US and Iran are currently denying direct co-operation with each other, it's an intriguing thought to wonder who is talking to who behind the scenes in the latest coalition. Liaison officers??

On a separate note, I understand that IS/ISIS/ISIL has now been formally rebranded (at least in military circles) as Da'eash (pronounced Daish). It is allegedely a derogatory Arabic term for 'poncey terrorist scumbags' or words to that effect....
I presume that the Americans must also have been talking to the Syrians before launching airstrikes there as well unless their defences have degraded significantly during the civil war or the US are restricting their attacks to targets well away from government forces.

BTW Da'eash is in common use in Iran to describe IS.
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