RAF to Import Ebola
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There is a precedent, we brought the first UK case of Aids back from the USA when it was an unknown disease and the poor girl was dying, no Airline would touch her so they sent a Ten, they had an incubator type set up on board with the crew in full NBC, she was offloaded over the far side of Brize, then the Ten went to Boscombe for a full decontam I think.
As long as people continue to become infected, the incubation period is always relevant. In fact, the greater the spread of the disease, the larger the number of pre-symptomatic sufferers there are likely to be.
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In a country where a surgeon can leave a scalpel, scissors of clamps inside a patient, a country where a sizeable portion of NHS staff are barely speaking English or are young and reckless, is it so hard to believe that a mistake can be made by someone in the handling of infected bedsheets or such?
Let's not forget that viruses can mutate.
As I've said before, this might not be the one that gets us, but at some point you will say 'we've been here before, calm down, it's a non-story' and 90% of everyone dies.
Edit: Just because we CAN bring someone back, doesn't make it a good idea. That goes for the past as well as the now. If it really is such a 'serious threat', why don't we just send a big ol' C17 with a load of Hazmat gear, set up a base IN AFRICA with the qualified personnel and use that as an aid/ research station. The cynic in me says this obviously hasn't been thought of.
Let's not forget that viruses can mutate.
As I've said before, this might not be the one that gets us, but at some point you will say 'we've been here before, calm down, it's a non-story' and 90% of everyone dies.
Edit: Just because we CAN bring someone back, doesn't make it a good idea. That goes for the past as well as the now. If it really is such a 'serious threat', why don't we just send a big ol' C17 with a load of Hazmat gear, set up a base IN AFRICA with the qualified personnel and use that as an aid/ research station. The cynic in me says this obviously hasn't been thought of.
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Edit: Just because we CAN bring someone back, doesn't make it a good idea. That goes for the past as well as the now. If it really is such a 'serious threat', why don't we just send a big ol' C17 with a load of Hazmat gear, set up a base IN AFRICA with the qualified personnel and use that as an aid/ research station. The cynic in me says this obviously hasn't been thought of.
That makes a lot of sense, though the risk is still there with aircraft coming back and forward to the UK.
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Well, it doesn't need to even be near the hot zones. C17s or Hercules can land at regional airports/ dirt strips, going nowhere near the terminals, the materiel offloaded onto a remote section of the ramp. The locals could then load it onto trucks and have it brought forward. The aircraft could be gone before the locals even arrive.
Better yet, why not just use that airdrop capability that presumably all aircraft with tail ramps have?
Incidents like this make me wonder whether, if we still had an Empire, we would look after these Brits, and the locals of smaller countries better in-situ and not feel the need to bring them all back home. The British chiefs need to keep in mind that in order to help others you must help yourself first. A sick doctor ain't gonna help no-one.
Better yet, why not just use that airdrop capability that presumably all aircraft with tail ramps have?
Incidents like this make me wonder whether, if we still had an Empire, we would look after these Brits, and the locals of smaller countries better in-situ and not feel the need to bring them all back home. The British chiefs need to keep in mind that in order to help others you must help yourself first. A sick doctor ain't gonna help no-one.
The RAF does have mobile Isolator Units (basically airborne isolation sets) which have been used in the past to bring VSI and possibly highly infectious patients back to UK. The kit had even passed a USAF decompression test.
At least it did, together with a highly trained team - at Lyneham. Wonder where it is now!
At least it did, together with a highly trained team - at Lyneham. Wonder where it is now!
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A lot of the public's perception of Ebola traces back to Richard Preston's early 1990s book "The Hot Zone". While a good read, Mr Preston hyper-senstationalized some aspects of the disease. That sold a lot of books for him, and consequently a lot of what people think they 'know' about it comes from that source. This includes the media. The fact is people don't 'dissolve' or 'liquefy' from Ebola. Yes it's an incredibly nasty virus but it's not the source of a coming zombie apocalypse that some people assume.
Like any deadly disease it is spread at least partly through fear and ignorance. If this outbreak continues as it has so far then there is a fairly decent chance that at some point it will pop up in a western country thanks the miracle of air travel. The media will have a field day filling the airwaves with panic. The people who make money from panic will have a field day, but it won't be the end of the world. And if and when it does pop up in Britain, how many who now advocate leaving UK patients in Africa instead of risking bringing them home will take the next logical step and advocate sealing then in their homes to stop the spread in a hospital setting?
Yes, its a horrible disease, but reading some actual scientific literature instead of the sensationalized pop culture version will reveal that it really is not a very robust virus outside a warm body, and it's not that easily spread in a setting where the most basic sanitary procedures are in place. And as another poster pointed out, even in the basic conditions in place in Africa the mortality rate with supportive care has dropped to around 60%. With top notch western care that level will very likely drop below 50%. The media here in the US are making a big issue of this being the first time Ebola has been treated in the USA, however it has been treated in the UK before. A researcher at Porton Down had a needle stick in the late 80s and came down with it. After what we can only assume was a very unpleasant few weeks, he recovered fully.
Like any deadly disease it is spread at least partly through fear and ignorance. If this outbreak continues as it has so far then there is a fairly decent chance that at some point it will pop up in a western country thanks the miracle of air travel. The media will have a field day filling the airwaves with panic. The people who make money from panic will have a field day, but it won't be the end of the world. And if and when it does pop up in Britain, how many who now advocate leaving UK patients in Africa instead of risking bringing them home will take the next logical step and advocate sealing then in their homes to stop the spread in a hospital setting?
Yes, its a horrible disease, but reading some actual scientific literature instead of the sensationalized pop culture version will reveal that it really is not a very robust virus outside a warm body, and it's not that easily spread in a setting where the most basic sanitary procedures are in place. And as another poster pointed out, even in the basic conditions in place in Africa the mortality rate with supportive care has dropped to around 60%. With top notch western care that level will very likely drop below 50%. The media here in the US are making a big issue of this being the first time Ebola has been treated in the USA, however it has been treated in the UK before. A researcher at Porton Down had a needle stick in the late 80s and came down with it. After what we can only assume was a very unpleasant few weeks, he recovered fully.
Shackman.
Now with TMW at Brize, called the Infection Control and Prevention Team. Last used to move a patient with Corona virus from Edinburgh to London last year.
The RAF does have mobile Isolator Units (basically airborne isolation sets) which have been used in the past to bring VSI and possibly highly infectious patients back to UK. The kit had even passed a USAF decompression test.
At least it did, together with a highly trained team - at Lyneham. Wonder where it is now!
At least it did, together with a highly trained team - at Lyneham. Wonder where it is now!
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Nope, I'm fed up with ex-pats screaming for HMG help the minute something goes tits up in their tropical retirement idyl/tax haven/ Slightly more sympathy for holidymakers, but not to the extent of replacing the local Police that we see in Portugal at the moment.
Nope, I'm fed up with ex-pats screaming for HMG help the minute something goes tits up in their tropical retirement idyl/tax haven/ Slightly more sympathy for holidymakers, but not to the extent of replacing the local Police that we see in Portugal at the moment.
2nd Aug 2014 19:35
2nd Aug 2014 19:35
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......where a sizeable portion of NHS staff are barely speaking English or are young and reckless, is it so hard to believe that a mistake can be made by someone in the handling of infected bedsheets or such?
I work in one of the largest hospital trusts in the country in what is arguably one of the most ethnically diverse cities (Leicester) and don't recognise anything like "a sizeable portion of NHS staff are barely speaking English".
And who are these "young and reckless" staff you speak of? I know very few who'd anywhere approach being 'reckless',although many are young. The staff who work on IDU are consummate professionals (even the younger ones) and deal with a range of infectious diseases day in, day out.
THS, totally agree, professionalism of a high order required, you don't need the staff becoming ill through sloppy procedures and practices.
Air pig and ninja-lewis.
Thank you for that information which I shall pass on to my neighbour - her husband developed the isolator but unfortunately was caught by the Big C a while back.
Thank you for that information which I shall pass on to my neighbour - her husband developed the isolator but unfortunately was caught by the Big C a while back.
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Stacker, I'll confess to picking weak references to prove the point of the potential for mistakes to be made. Perhaps I should have instead commented on the increasing, and blurry to an outsider, commercialisation of the NHS.
In my limited interactions with the staff of the local hospital stroke unit, I can say that whilst the Doctors spoke fluent English, the nurses and ancillary staff spoke a level of English enough to merely irritate. These aren't the staff you would expect to be the first picks of the world's most significant healthcare system. For as good as these nurses/ healthcare givers (or whatever the Job-title of the week is) are, I don't trust that there can't be a significant misunderstanding between the multi-lingual soup that is the NHS' cheap side. I'm thinking along the lines of a game of Chinese whispers: 'Take these sheets to the incinerator' turns into 'Give them a quick rinse and whack 'em back in the linen cupboard'.
I speak of 'young and reckless' mainly from remembering a recent news story in which a porter of said description was caught posting photos, on Facebook, of himself dressed in a sick/deceased elderly lady's underwear. I have no illusions that to even become a nurse requires much dedication, willpower and perhaps, finance; obviously nobody with that much emotional investment in a career would be likely to make a mistake that serious, but what concerns me are the back-room types that handle infected materials for disposal etc. As an outsider, knowing that the NHS, as with most things, is being outsourced, the likely areas in my mind for contracting out are those exact support roles. Lowest bidder staff fill those jobs. Maybe some of them do take it seriously. A whole lot more of them will be waiting for their shift to end to get out on the lash. For someone like that it's just a job; low paid, monotonous, 9-5. That sort of job will make people complacent. They will get bored, and they will make mistakes.
Contractorisation is just another way of cheapening the end product, providing less quality and less versatility for less cost.
I have no insight into the containment of the infected in a hospital situation, nor to the disposal of the contaminated materials. But I would bet that at some point in the chain those sheets will be handed over to the cheap, bored staff of Ebolacleaners4S and that increases the risk of transmission.
I am a cynic of most things. Someone has to disagree for the sake of argument. One day I will be right
.
In my limited interactions with the staff of the local hospital stroke unit, I can say that whilst the Doctors spoke fluent English, the nurses and ancillary staff spoke a level of English enough to merely irritate. These aren't the staff you would expect to be the first picks of the world's most significant healthcare system. For as good as these nurses/ healthcare givers (or whatever the Job-title of the week is) are, I don't trust that there can't be a significant misunderstanding between the multi-lingual soup that is the NHS' cheap side. I'm thinking along the lines of a game of Chinese whispers: 'Take these sheets to the incinerator' turns into 'Give them a quick rinse and whack 'em back in the linen cupboard'.
I speak of 'young and reckless' mainly from remembering a recent news story in which a porter of said description was caught posting photos, on Facebook, of himself dressed in a sick/deceased elderly lady's underwear. I have no illusions that to even become a nurse requires much dedication, willpower and perhaps, finance; obviously nobody with that much emotional investment in a career would be likely to make a mistake that serious, but what concerns me are the back-room types that handle infected materials for disposal etc. As an outsider, knowing that the NHS, as with most things, is being outsourced, the likely areas in my mind for contracting out are those exact support roles. Lowest bidder staff fill those jobs. Maybe some of them do take it seriously. A whole lot more of them will be waiting for their shift to end to get out on the lash. For someone like that it's just a job; low paid, monotonous, 9-5. That sort of job will make people complacent. They will get bored, and they will make mistakes.
Contractorisation is just another way of cheapening the end product, providing less quality and less versatility for less cost.
I have no insight into the containment of the infected in a hospital situation, nor to the disposal of the contaminated materials. But I would bet that at some point in the chain those sheets will be handed over to the cheap, bored staff of Ebolacleaners4S and that increases the risk of transmission.
I am a cynic of most things. Someone has to disagree for the sake of argument. One day I will be right
.
At some point I wonder if the USAMRIID or CDC will be sent out there (please do not judge me as I have Outbreak and The Cassandra Crossing on iTunes - great rotary wing action 
) as Jolly suggested - have a forward deployed mobile lab makes sense.
I watched a documentary on ITV around 10 years back relating to the incident in Virginia and the unseen footage of USAMRIID personnel suiting up in biohazard BL4 suits. Initially not to create a panic, the officers and enlisted personnel were instructed to wear civvy clothes / PT gear (depicted in reconstruction) walk calmly to their own vehicles at Ft Detrick (?) and drive to the lab. IIRC, the primates were killed, blood drained and bodies incinerated.
Also reading in New Scientist mag in late 90s, there was an article about dealing with diseases and compared USAMRIID, CDC with the Old Portonions CAMR The ethos over here was keep said pretty much IIRC, keep the bugs from the personnel to research and study, whereas over at USAMRIID and CDC, everyone suits up to the brim as the environment they work in is very much lethal.
Cheers
) as Jolly suggested - have a forward deployed mobile lab makes sense.I watched a documentary on ITV around 10 years back relating to the incident in Virginia and the unseen footage of USAMRIID personnel suiting up in biohazard BL4 suits. Initially not to create a panic, the officers and enlisted personnel were instructed to wear civvy clothes / PT gear (depicted in reconstruction) walk calmly to their own vehicles at Ft Detrick (?) and drive to the lab. IIRC, the primates were killed, blood drained and bodies incinerated.
Also reading in New Scientist mag in late 90s, there was an article about dealing with diseases and compared USAMRIID, CDC with the Old Portonions CAMR The ethos over here was keep said pretty much IIRC, keep the bugs from the personnel to research and study, whereas over at USAMRIID and CDC, everyone suits up to the brim as the environment they work in is very much lethal.
Cheers
