RAF CAS says 'Politicians make it up as they go.'
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RAF CAS says 'Politicians make it up as they go.'
RAF chief says politicians 'make it up as they go along' - Telegraph
Notice the mealy mouth response at the bottom.
mmitch.
Notice the mealy mouth response at the bottom.
mmitch.
That the image of the Royal Air Force is driven by two comedians wearing this uniform, selling beer. Is that what air power is about?
LJ
And the army fly helicopters and they smell well rank!
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Very good Leon 
As an aside ... I was disappointed that the Pythons didn't do the RAF "Banter" sketch at their O2 reunion gig last week
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rKYL0tW-Ek&app=desktop
PS. Nail, Head, Bang, On ...
As an aside ... I was disappointed that the Pythons didn't do the RAF "Banter" sketch at their O2 reunion gig last week
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rKYL0tW-Ek&app=desktop
PS. Nail, Head, Bang, On ...
In all fairness, it's nice to see a senior officer state the obvious for once, irrespective of the RAF comments attempting to defuse the speech. Most individuals beyond OF4 seem to forget their responsibilities to their men and focus more on their pension.
If a Very Senior Officer can't deal with ambiguity, a desire to leave things until the last safe moment (and that's probably much later than we care to admit), and an understanding that the Military gold-plated solution is rarely actually necessary, then I'm not sure he is fit to be a Very Senior Officer.
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Nice dit ... at least there's a CAS who lays it on the line. 
CAS was speaking at a RUSI conference (at which SofS was also to speak) and was discussing the inevitable tensions between political and military priorities. This was second hand reporting of a detailed and honest debate. Typical media spin!
Last edited by Red Line Entry; 23rd Jul 2014 at 07:04.
LJ,
Fighters are for airshows and this and that aren't they? After all Blud, they've not done any fighting or sh1t since Korea - which is well wicked cos you can cut around telling public how, like, sick you are without, like having to fight or anything!! Well, apart from those well dodgy viff puffer toys that, like the Navy had in the Falklands or whatever, but they were like, not supersonic so we, like, totally got rid of them - random....
Anyway, fighter pilots, seem to have an intolerance to medals and Sh1t - so it must be against your human rights to talk to SH mates with, like, loads of medals and stuff, and they must just diss you off with a "whatever" when you tell them how hard Libya was or how, like, operational, the Falklands are nowadays....isn't it?
Snap shot banter mate; CAS is either showing naïveté ( I doubt it, knowing how smooth he us) or he's really trying to lay a pre election marker down. I care not for the horse soldiers waffle afterwards - they're still competing for advancement after 2015. With other recent statements by other VSOs it suggests a rare degree of harmony at the top of the MoD. Perhaps helped by having a CAS far more purple than most of his predecessors?
Fighters are for airshows and this and that aren't they? After all Blud, they've not done any fighting or sh1t since Korea - which is well wicked cos you can cut around telling public how, like, sick you are without, like having to fight or anything!! Well, apart from those well dodgy viff puffer toys that, like the Navy had in the Falklands or whatever, but they were like, not supersonic so we, like, totally got rid of them - random....
Anyway, fighter pilots, seem to have an intolerance to medals and Sh1t - so it must be against your human rights to talk to SH mates with, like, loads of medals and stuff, and they must just diss you off with a "whatever" when you tell them how hard Libya was or how, like, operational, the Falklands are nowadays....isn't it?
Snap shot banter mate; CAS is either showing naïveté ( I doubt it, knowing how smooth he us) or he's really trying to lay a pre election marker down. I care not for the horse soldiers waffle afterwards - they're still competing for advancement after 2015. With other recent statements by other VSOs it suggests a rare degree of harmony at the top of the MoD. Perhaps helped by having a CAS far more purple than most of his predecessors?
Coff
Yes, a great shame on the Pythons 'RAF Banter' - a classic that lead to things like Armstrong and Miller. I do think that the WWII aircrew image is so deeply rooted in our heritage that we would be fools to turn our back on it.
Here's another favourite:
Pully's chollywhoppers are a comparitively new capability and the SH force have in the past insisted on wearing Frank Spencer berets with their flying suits - all of which further detaches them from the RAF in the public's eyes. Whenever a Pongo gets on board an RAF cab or Herc then they should be in no doubt that it doesn't belong to the Army's teeny weeny airways. That starts with the way that we present ourselves and stopping wearing CS95/MTP with berets is just the beginning. Stopping the slow malaise of down-playing aircrew status - like the idiotic recent shirt badge palava and the placing of non-aircrew into traditional aircrew posts. We need to stop pretending that non-operators are Air Power experts - only those that operate in, with or around aircraft can be. A blunty going to the so called 'College of Knowledge' at Shrivenham does not make them an Air Power expert. All of this 'thins' our brand and a previous CAS was 'on the money' in asking us to wear blues whenever possible to try and raise RAF profile. However, putting us in nasty 'tuppence-halfpenny' nasty-nylon shirts, trousers and wooly pulleys with no proper heritage is a disaster - travelling on the train in the No 2 wooly pulley combo I have been asked what my uniform is on at least a dozen occasions! Oddly enough, I never get asked when in flying clothing and also the bluntys often ask us to turn out in flying clothing at media events to showcase that the RAF is about flying - I wonder why? Is it because our No 2 blues make us look like office workers; even RAC men have more appropriate clothing these days!
The public face of the RAF is the Dambusters, the Battle of Britain and the Great Escape. Live with it and work with it. We need to stop tailoring No 1s so you can see what you've eaten for breakfast and then they might be comfortable enough to be everyday wear like a suit for wearing in HQs and Main Building. Introduce a comfortable (non-hairy mary) battle-dress style jacket to wear as No2s - God knows there are so many campaign medal ribbons on our people; well let them wear them with pride. Get rid of the beret full stop - it's for Frenchmen, Pongos and Frank Spencer!
Finally, what a mixed message we are passing at the moment. On one hand we have CAS giving out a pseudo b0ll0cking for not actively plugging Air Power and then in another message we have spelled the end of the RAF Leuchars and Waddington Airshows.
Right that's tonight's real-ale rant sorted!
LJ
Yes, a great shame on the Pythons 'RAF Banter' - a classic that lead to things like Armstrong and Miller. I do think that the WWII aircrew image is so deeply rooted in our heritage that we would be fools to turn our back on it.
Here's another favourite:
Pully's chollywhoppers are a comparitively new capability and the SH force have in the past insisted on wearing Frank Spencer berets with their flying suits - all of which further detaches them from the RAF in the public's eyes. Whenever a Pongo gets on board an RAF cab or Herc then they should be in no doubt that it doesn't belong to the Army's teeny weeny airways. That starts with the way that we present ourselves and stopping wearing CS95/MTP with berets is just the beginning. Stopping the slow malaise of down-playing aircrew status - like the idiotic recent shirt badge palava and the placing of non-aircrew into traditional aircrew posts. We need to stop pretending that non-operators are Air Power experts - only those that operate in, with or around aircraft can be. A blunty going to the so called 'College of Knowledge' at Shrivenham does not make them an Air Power expert. All of this 'thins' our brand and a previous CAS was 'on the money' in asking us to wear blues whenever possible to try and raise RAF profile. However, putting us in nasty 'tuppence-halfpenny' nasty-nylon shirts, trousers and wooly pulleys with no proper heritage is a disaster - travelling on the train in the No 2 wooly pulley combo I have been asked what my uniform is on at least a dozen occasions! Oddly enough, I never get asked when in flying clothing and also the bluntys often ask us to turn out in flying clothing at media events to showcase that the RAF is about flying - I wonder why? Is it because our No 2 blues make us look like office workers; even RAC men have more appropriate clothing these days!
He said: “We all of us in this room should be ashamed. We have been in this game for over 100 years and the people don’t understand air power. That the image of the Royal Air Force is driven by two comedians wearing this uniform, selling beer. Is that what air power is about? We have got to do better.”
Finally, what a mixed message we are passing at the moment. On one hand we have CAS giving out a pseudo b0ll0cking for not actively plugging Air Power and then in another message we have spelled the end of the RAF Leuchars and Waddington Airshows.
Right that's tonight's real-ale rant sorted!
LJ
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 10th Jul 2014 at 21:42.
Evalu8ter
Top banter old bean!
BTW, I agree with you...
and I don't believe that he is naiive on the main thrust of his speech regarding political decision making.
Top banter old bean!
BTW, I agree with you...
he's really trying to lay a pre election marker down
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 10th Jul 2014 at 21:52.
The RAF frittered away its best opportunity for years to engage the public on modern air power when it was so desperately modest about its achievements in Libya. 'Typhoon can drop a bomb!' and 'Look at these really useful Sentinel GMTI images!' seemed to be the only messages that we bothered to push. Sir, we only have ourselves to blame.
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We are all from different generations (cue Python misquote: "I'm not!...") and we sometimes don't get the Zeit Geist, such as the furore surrounding the self appointed partial experts who didn't watch the whole of Blackadder Goes Forth, so missed the point of the final scene, which actually made a valid connection that many of the 1980s generation could make with their forebears, ie real people larking around but eventually having to face up to their duty. Lost on the attention seeking politicians (card-carrying or otherwise) and Daily Mail readers.
Normal people (and I have met some) LOVE the RAF, the uniform, even the forage caps (though not the berets, natch). They WANT us to be like the 1940s pilots, and forgive us the lack of brevets and medals. It has to do with civility, and everything that made us chose the mob instead of other fighting arms, industry, the airlines, or perish the thought, The City. Armstrong and Miller have got it right - they do not paint the whole picture, but any tech-savvy youth will be able to work that out in a few key presses on his I-phone.
Those of us that care should make sure the right kids make the key presses necessary to apply online to join up, so they can use their skills (and by god the have some - frighteningly capable youngsters, in every way better than my generation coming through when I left 4 years ago) to continue our evolving Premier Fighting Arm.
Normal people (and I have met some) LOVE the RAF, the uniform, even the forage caps (though not the berets, natch). They WANT us to be like the 1940s pilots, and forgive us the lack of brevets and medals. It has to do with civility, and everything that made us chose the mob instead of other fighting arms, industry, the airlines, or perish the thought, The City. Armstrong and Miller have got it right - they do not paint the whole picture, but any tech-savvy youth will be able to work that out in a few key presses on his I-phone.
Those of us that care should make sure the right kids make the key presses necessary to apply online to join up, so they can use their skills (and by god the have some - frighteningly capable youngsters, in every way better than my generation coming through when I left 4 years ago) to continue our evolving Premier Fighting Arm.
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He told an audience of military officers from around the world there was a “balance between what the politicians might want me to do and how much they want me to pay for it, and how much time and effort and resource they wish me to invest in it”.
MESSAGE FROM THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON TO THE BRITISH FOREIGN OFFICE IN LONDON -- written from Central Spain, August 1812
Gentlemen,
Whilst marching from Portugal to a position which commands the approach to Madrid and the French forces, my officers have been diligently complying with your requests which have been sent by H.M. ship from London to Lisbon and thence by dispatch to our headquarters.
We have enumerated our saddles, bridles, tents and tent poles, and all manner of sundry items for which His Majesty's Government holds me accountable. I have dispatched reports on the character, wit, and spleen of every officer. Each item and every farthing has been accounted for, with two regrettable exceptions for which I beg your indulgence.
Unfortunately the sum of one shilling and ninepence remains unaccounted for in one infantry battalion's petty cash and there has been a hideous confusion as the number of jars of raspberry jam issued to one cavalry regiment during a sandstorm in western Spain. This reprehensible carelessness may be related to the pressure of circumstance, since we are at war with France, a fact which may come as a bit of a surprise to you gentlemen in Whitehall.
This brings me to my present purpose, which is to request elucidation of my instructions from His Majesty's Government so that I may better understand why I am dragging an army over these barren plains. I construe that perforce it must be one of two alternative duties, as given below. I shall pursue either one with the best of my ability, but I cannot do both:
1. To train an army of uniformed British clerks in Spain for the benefit of the accountants and copy-boys in London or perchance,
2. To see to it that the forces of Napoleon are driven out of Spain.
Your most obedient servant
Wellington
Easy Street,
Perhaps Libya was the exception, and modern air power is actually more like Iraq and Afghan where the critical tasks have been air mobility, air assault, strat/Tac lift, ISTAR and CAS? Not as glamorous as air combat but more prevalent. The problem we have is convincing people to carry on investing in a DCA/OCA capability (at great expense) when, apart from the odd Q intercept, it's not heavily used - and certainly not as media friendly as a MERT documentary or, sadly, a repatriation. One day we will need the high end stuff again, but if we over focus on it we risk being ambushed by our sister services for displaying an obsession with FJ at the expense of everything else. Control of the Air remains sacrosanct, but perhaps we, as an organisation need to raise our game re the other, less sexy, roles as they are seen as more important day to day.
Perhaps Libya was the exception, and modern air power is actually more like Iraq and Afghan where the critical tasks have been air mobility, air assault, strat/Tac lift, ISTAR and CAS? Not as glamorous as air combat but more prevalent. The problem we have is convincing people to carry on investing in a DCA/OCA capability (at great expense) when, apart from the odd Q intercept, it's not heavily used - and certainly not as media friendly as a MERT documentary or, sadly, a repatriation. One day we will need the high end stuff again, but if we over focus on it we risk being ambushed by our sister services for displaying an obsession with FJ at the expense of everything else. Control of the Air remains sacrosanct, but perhaps we, as an organisation need to raise our game re the other, less sexy, roles as they are seen as more important day to day.
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CAS's speech was a well delivered summary of the RUSI conference. He was describing the well known tension between the military and politicians and it was not stated in a critical way but a pure statement of fact. Ben Farmer's article is pretty accurate.....remember he did not write the headline, the sub-ed did.
You probably have the best CAS you have had for several generations. He understands the proper position of the RAF as a supporting arm to the Army and RN (the RAF will never be the "supported" arm, that is not its role). He stated this very clearly in the same speech. AP will win many friends in the Westminster village which should pay handsomely in SDSR 2015, but the naysayers will have to understand that it will probably not be a one sided drive for RAF owned kit. He is much more of a Joint Capability man.
As an example AP "gets" the new carriers and the importance of them as a strategic national asset. If the jets need to spend lots of time at sea he will make sure they do. The reason is that unless this happens, and short of a new war, the RAF will be largely UK based contributing little to influence around the globe - a role that is back in the RN's hands now that Iraq and Afgh campaigns are complete.
Wake up and smell the mustard!
You probably have the best CAS you have had for several generations. He understands the proper position of the RAF as a supporting arm to the Army and RN (the RAF will never be the "supported" arm, that is not its role). He stated this very clearly in the same speech. AP will win many friends in the Westminster village which should pay handsomely in SDSR 2015, but the naysayers will have to understand that it will probably not be a one sided drive for RAF owned kit. He is much more of a Joint Capability man.
As an example AP "gets" the new carriers and the importance of them as a strategic national asset. If the jets need to spend lots of time at sea he will make sure they do. The reason is that unless this happens, and short of a new war, the RAF will be largely UK based contributing little to influence around the globe - a role that is back in the RN's hands now that Iraq and Afgh campaigns are complete.
Wake up and smell the mustard!
Pully's chollywhoppers are a comparitively new capability and the SH force have in the past insisted on wearing Frank Spencer berets with their flying suits - all of which further detaches them from the RAF in the public's eyes. Whenever a Pongo gets on board an RAF cab or Herc then they should be in no doubt that it doesn't belong to the Army's teeny weeny airways. That starts with the way that we present ourselves and stopping wearing CS95/MTP with berets is just the beginning. Stopping the slow malaise of down-playing aircrew status - like the idiotic recent shirt badge palava and the placing of non-aircrew into traditional aircrew posts. We need to stop pretending that non-operators are Air Power experts - only those that operate in, with or around aircraft can be. A blunty going to the so called 'College of Knowledge' at Shrivenham does not make them an Air Power expert. All of this 'thins' our brand and a previous CAS was 'on the money' in asking us to wear blues whenever possible to try and raise RAF profile. However, putting us in nasty 'tuppence-halfpenny' nasty-nylon shirts, trousers and wooly pulleys with no proper heritage is a disaster - travelling on the train in the No 2 wooly pulley combo I have been asked what my uniform is on at least a dozen occasions! Oddly enough, I never get asked when in flying clothing and also the bluntys often ask us to turn out in flying clothing at media events to showcase that the RAF is about flying - I wonder why? Is it because our No 2 blues make us look like office workers; even RAC men have more appropriate clothing these days!
You and I are normally in sync on most things, and there are many elements of the above which I can agree with.
As for wearing berets with flying suits and not being distinguishable from the army, I view that as a positive; they are our primary customer and we forget that at our peril.... ask the former members of 12 Sqn RAAF.
When it comes to the Army, for whom we provide the majority of support services (the support as in Support Helicopters) the RAF has an image problem which is mainly centered around the AT fleets 'check in not dig in' mentality.
You will find that one of the few elements of the RAF that has climbed that mountain is the SH Force. Horses for Causes, kind sir, but I believe that 'Pully's chollywhoppers' have it right, innit!
I also agree with Andy, and it is good to see a VSO speak out whilst still in the job, and not sit quietly, accept the pension and then snipe from the sidelines.