Learjet down over Germany after collision with Eurofighter
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Germany: Lear Jet Crashed after Collision with Eurofighter | nsnbc international
Flugunfall V3
A private Lear Jet with two on board crashed after a collision with one of two German Air Force Eurofighter jets above the town of Olsberg, Sauerland, in the German State Nordrhein Westfalen, reports local police. The pilots of the two military planes were training the intercept of an out of communication, civilian airplane. At least one of the two occupants of the Lear Jet has been killed.
Oberst (Colonel) Andreas Hoppe of the 31st Tactical Fighter Wing, said that the pilot of the severely damaged Eurofighter was able of returning his jet to the Nörvenich Air Base near the city of Köln while the pilot of the second Eurofighter landed at Köln Wahn.
Hoppe added that both of the pilots were very experienced and had often executed the same training exercise as the one they carried out Monday morning at the time of the crash. The Air Force spokesman said that he had no information about the causes to the collision and that both of the planes impacted at both their body as well as a wing.
The training exercise, said Oberst Andreas Hoppe, involved the intercept of a civilian plane that failed to communicate with aviation authorities, adding that the Air Force usually establishes visual contact with such planes to guide it to one of the nearest air ports to land. The usual distance between the interceptors and the civilian plane, he added, was normally about 500 to 1,000 meters while the second military jet normally would trail the intercepted plane at a distance of 3,000 meters.
Oberst (Colonel) Andreas Hoppe of the 31st Tactical Fighter Wing, said that the pilot of the severely damaged Eurofighter was able of returning his jet to the Nörvenich Air Base near the city of Köln while the pilot of the second Eurofighter landed at Köln Wahn.
Hoppe added that both of the pilots were very experienced and had often executed the same training exercise as the one they carried out Monday morning at the time of the crash. The Air Force spokesman said that he had no information about the causes to the collision and that both of the planes impacted at both their body as well as a wing.
The training exercise, said Oberst Andreas Hoppe, involved the intercept of a civilian plane that failed to communicate with aviation authorities, adding that the Air Force usually establishes visual contact with such planes to guide it to one of the nearest air ports to land. The usual distance between the interceptors and the civilian plane, he added, was normally about 500 to 1,000 meters while the second military jet normally would trail the intercepted plane at a distance of 3,000 meters.
The Luftwaffe has published a press release of the accodent stating that the leading EF and the Learjet were turning left and than the collision happened. Details have not been released and civil and military aviation authorities investigate. Based on what's released it looks like the Learjet rammed the leading Eurofighter in the turn damaging its wing and fuselage and some equipment on the wing. The Learjet crashed, one crew is still missing.
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RAFENG
Just wondering why the Saarland Prosecutor would want to get involved - the accident happened in Nordrhein Westfalen (NRW) to the NE of Cologne (Olsberg, was that LFA 3?, near the Warburg "pimple"), about 250 miles from the Saarland border.
Mister B
Just wondering why the Saarland Prosecutor would want to get involved - the accident happened in Nordrhein Westfalen (NRW) to the NE of Cologne (Olsberg, was that LFA 3?, near the Warburg "pimple"), about 250 miles from the Saarland border.
Mister B
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Very sad for all concerned, especially for the families of the two deceased Learjet crew.
Just an observation here, in days gone by this task would probably have been done using a "second line" military aircraft such as a Canberra, OV-10 (Bronco) or perhaps, going back far enough, by a Meteor. All of these aircraft would have been fitted with ejection seats......had they been flying an Alphajet or Hawk their lives could possibly have been saved.
Although such collisions are fortunately rare the risk of such operations is in my view higher than say corporate or airline ops and I question the suitability of some of the aircraft sometimes used to support what is essentially a military flying mission, all no doubt driven by trying to save money not necessarily making the operations safer for the crew. Time for a rethink?
Just an observation here, in days gone by this task would probably have been done using a "second line" military aircraft such as a Canberra, OV-10 (Bronco) or perhaps, going back far enough, by a Meteor. All of these aircraft would have been fitted with ejection seats......had they been flying an Alphajet or Hawk their lives could possibly have been saved.
Although such collisions are fortunately rare the risk of such operations is in my view higher than say corporate or airline ops and I question the suitability of some of the aircraft sometimes used to support what is essentially a military flying mission, all no doubt driven by trying to save money not necessarily making the operations safer for the crew. Time for a rethink?
Pegase Driver
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Full wings, the 2nd Eurofighter was not involved, was not even close during the collision.
But the Lear and the other one were in very close formation for a long period before the collision. Rumor here says the mission was practicing ways for "forcing an aircraft" to land. Well, if it is true, I am sure they will review the procedures...
But the Lear and the other one were in very close formation for a long period before the collision. Rumor here says the mission was practicing ways for "forcing an aircraft" to land. Well, if it is true, I am sure they will review the procedures...
Mr B,
I took it from this - perhaps the translation is incorrect and it should be Sauerland ? One of the other articles I posted a link to had a local police spokesman quoting an investigation as well.
"Flugzeugabsturz im Sauerland:Staatsanwaltschaft ermittelt wegen fahrlässiger Tötung" [Plane crash in Saarland: Prosecutor investigating pilot for manslaughter] (in German). Der Spiegel. Retrieved 24 June 2014.
I took it from this - perhaps the translation is incorrect and it should be Sauerland ? One of the other articles I posted a link to had a local police spokesman quoting an investigation as well.
"Flugzeugabsturz im Sauerland:Staatsanwaltschaft ermittelt wegen fahrlässiger Tötung" [Plane crash in Saarland: Prosecutor investigating pilot for manslaughter] (in German). Der Spiegel. Retrieved 24 June 2014.
G-ARZG,
Actually, yes - totally inappropriate and disrespectful to the professionalism of a military aviator who, let's not forget, managed to bring back his very heavily damaged, asymmetrically configured Typhoon. Imagine what was going on in his head at that time and now. One second he was engaged in a realistic operational training mission and probably having quite an enjoyable day - the next second, 2 fellow aviators are dead and his own world both professionally and personally will never be the same again.
Actually, yes - totally inappropriate and disrespectful to the professionalism of a military aviator who, let's not forget, managed to bring back his very heavily damaged, asymmetrically configured Typhoon. Imagine what was going on in his head at that time and now. One second he was engaged in a realistic operational training mission and probably having quite an enjoyable day - the next second, 2 fellow aviators are dead and his own world both professionally and personally will never be the same again.
A German Air Force spokesman in Berlin has apparently stated that they believe the Learjet pilot was to blame for the collision - on the basis that the Typhoon was hit from below and lost a tank - "of course we want to wait for the conclusive report, but ...". The Federal Bureau of Aircraft Accident Investigation stated "pure speculation, one of many possible variations". The Learjet's flight recorder has been recovered for analysis.
Air force blames dead pilot for crash - The Local
Air force blames dead pilot for crash - The Local
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
For those who don't know, Germany is a nation of laws. Aircraft fly in formation under the rules of the air plus the appropriate sortie briefings. For a collision to occur, in the absence of other failures, somebody breached the rules, however inadvertently. The Germans are identifying which pilot was at fault under the regulatory framework in place. It's the same as a road traffic accident in Germany - somebody will always be held at fault under the rules of the road. The fact that 2 tragic deaths occurred doesn't change the way the authorities will review the accident. It's not personal, it's a legal requirement.
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These German Air Force comments are exceptionally unusual and prejudicial at this stage when our knowledge of the facts is, to say the least, incomplete. Firstly, issuing a public commendation to a pilot just involved in a fatal collision then releasing an statement emphatically blaming the dead pilots, before even their remains have been found! Had it been the typhoon which went down and the management of the target company acted like this, it would rightly have caused the most furious outcry on these pages!
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
A German Air Force spokesman in Berlin has apparently stated that they believe the Learjet pilot was to blame for the collision - on the basis that the Typhoon was hit from below and lost a tank
Late break-away and a very hard pull later the F4 pilot felt a bump and thought he'd flown through the Canberra wake. The Canberra diverted with a Mayday and a ruptured wingtip tank.
Inspection on the ground showed witness marks on the bottom of the F4 wing and horizontal tail and the missile rail pushed back 3-4 inches. The canberra wingtip tank had gone between the F4 missile rail and underwing tank scoring both. An either side or up and both would have been lost.
Lesson? Just because the damage was to the underside/tank of the Eurofighter doesn't, necessarily, make it the Learjet crews fault. Wait for the BOI result.
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These German Air Force comments are exceptionally unusual and prejudicial at this stage when our knowledge of the facts is, to say the least, incomplete. Firstly, issuing a public commendation to a pilot just involved in a fatal collision then releasing an statement emphatically blaming the dead pilots, before even their remains have been found! Had it been the typhoon which went down and the management of the target company acted like this, it would rightly have caused the most furious outcry on these pages!
Both pilots killed were ex-military aviators.
FRADU (Fleet Requirements and Aircraft Direction Unit) were redesignated 736 Naval Air Squadron last year and moved to Yeovilton as I understand it.
Not sure what the breakdown between them and Cobhams was.
Had a trip with them out of Lossie many moons ago against the Ark Royal.
Lots of fun pretending to be Exocets at 50 feet!
Not sure what the breakdown between them and Cobhams was.
Had a trip with them out of Lossie many moons ago against the Ark Royal.
Lots of fun pretending to be Exocets at 50 feet!
Last edited by Coochycool; 23rd Jul 2014 at 19:06.