Russia Warns Sweden and Finland Against NATO Membership
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Not necessarily a fence for direct military purpose. If you were looking forward, to a time pehaps when the RF was breaking up, or in other internal turmoil, a fence near the practical border crossing points would at least give you some measure of control over a flow of West-bound refugees.
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The Swedish armed forces have asked the police for help in a 'situation' on the West Coast. Reports of drone activity over a military facility - Sveriges Radio
Not necessarily a fence for direct military purpose. If you were looking forward, to a time pehaps when the RF was breaking up, or in other internal turmoil, a fence near the practical border crossing points would at least give you some measure of control over a flow of West-bound refugees.
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Occasionally human beings try that as well but all are detained neverminding the crossing point.
The planned fence will be to contain a similar situation seen on the Poland/Belarus border with hundreds or thousands of people pushed towards the border by Belarusian officials.
Theres no point in fencing the entire border or make anything more robust as no one in their right mind would walk through tens of kilometers of Karelian forests to the border just to find themselves in the middle of Karelian forests either freezing in three feet of snow in the winter or being eaten by billions of mosquitoes in the summer while standing on a swamp up your loins. And still you'd be caught.
And for the same reason the Russkies would be rather adventurous trying to enter with military force out there. It would be more probable for them to succeed via roads than through the vastness of dense woods, deep swamps and plenty of lakes. However the roads are few and narrow. And surrounded by dense woods with local defenders.
When the SU broke up and especially during the coup there were serious concerns what should be done if there would've been a mass exodus towards west. This has been a scenario in the planning ever since although the politicians did a piss poor job in the early 21st century bowing towards Russia by signing the Ottawa treaty, allowing the Nord Stream, allowing russians to buy real estate from places they shouldn't have etc.
One may think what they will of PM Sanna Marin but she's really been a whirlwind of fresh air venting the relationship with Russia.
Hard to believe hundreds off thousands of refugees will make it to the NW of Russia to cross the border when they can do it further south in a lot easier. But it does make sense to harden the border crossings because, as we all now, going through the woods is apoor option
But at least Russian of the Winter war 1940 will recognize the equipment used by Vlad's storm troopers. In fact, they may need to check their museums to see how many exhibits are missing from WW-1, the civil war, & WW-2
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Dave, Touché!!
Hungary has moved with the ratification and should be done by mid December.
That leaves Turkey alone opposing the memberships.
"Chief of staff to PM Viktor Orbán, said the expansion of NATO to include the two Nordic countries would be ratified by mid-December at the latest"
That leaves Turkey alone opposing the memberships.
"Chief of staff to PM Viktor Orbán, said the expansion of NATO to include the two Nordic countries would be ratified by mid-December at the latest"
https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1583836522737856514
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Consequences….
Finland's PM does not rule out nuclear weapons or permanent Nato bases in Finland - YLE
Finland's PM does not rule out nuclear weapons or permanent Nato bases in Finland - YLE
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https://www.politico.eu/article/finl...ays-in-turkey/
NATO chief to Turkey: It’s time to admit Finland, Sweden
During a visit, Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg says the NATO applicants had fulfilled their deal with Turkey.
NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg on Thursday increased pressure on Turkey to green-light Sweden and Finland’s accession to the alliance, declaring during a visit to Istanbul that Stockholm and Helsinki “have delivered” and should be allowed in.
Officials from Turkey, Finland and Sweden signed a memorandum in June to pave the way for the two countries to address Turkish concerns regarding terrorism and arms exports, but Turkey — along with Hungary — has yet to sign off on their accession.
The delay has raised questions about Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s political strategy and whether he is using the issue of NATO accession as a bargaining chip in Ankara’s complex relationship with the United States, as well as to boost his own popularity at home.
Turkish officials’ rhetoric on the need to crack down on “terrorism” has also fueled frustration among some Western officials who say Ankara could be using the term in an attempt to crack down on critics.
“I recognize your concerns,” Stoltenberg said in a press conference alongside Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu. “At the same time,” he said, “it is clear that Finland and Sweden have delivered on the memorandum and are committed to the long-term partnership with Türkiye.”
The NATO chief said both Sweden and Finland have taken “major concrete actions” to implement the deal with Turkey, including boosting cooperation on counterterrorism.
“Sweden is passing new legislation prohibiting participation in terrorist organizations, including the PKK, and strengthening the tools on terrorist financing — more extraditions and expulsions are taking place, and restrictions on arms sale to Türkiye have ended,” he said.
Helsinki and Stockholm, he said, have done their part, and “so it’s time to welcome Finland and Sweden as full members of NATO.”…….
NATO chief to Turkey: It’s time to admit Finland, Sweden
During a visit, Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg says the NATO applicants had fulfilled their deal with Turkey.
NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg on Thursday increased pressure on Turkey to green-light Sweden and Finland’s accession to the alliance, declaring during a visit to Istanbul that Stockholm and Helsinki “have delivered” and should be allowed in.
Officials from Turkey, Finland and Sweden signed a memorandum in June to pave the way for the two countries to address Turkish concerns regarding terrorism and arms exports, but Turkey — along with Hungary — has yet to sign off on their accession.
The delay has raised questions about Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s political strategy and whether he is using the issue of NATO accession as a bargaining chip in Ankara’s complex relationship with the United States, as well as to boost his own popularity at home.
Turkish officials’ rhetoric on the need to crack down on “terrorism” has also fueled frustration among some Western officials who say Ankara could be using the term in an attempt to crack down on critics.
“I recognize your concerns,” Stoltenberg said in a press conference alongside Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu. “At the same time,” he said, “it is clear that Finland and Sweden have delivered on the memorandum and are committed to the long-term partnership with Türkiye.”
The NATO chief said both Sweden and Finland have taken “major concrete actions” to implement the deal with Turkey, including boosting cooperation on counterterrorism.
“Sweden is passing new legislation prohibiting participation in terrorist organizations, including the PKK, and strengthening the tools on terrorist financing — more extraditions and expulsions are taking place, and restrictions on arms sale to Türkiye have ended,” he said.
Helsinki and Stockholm, he said, have done their part, and “so it’s time to welcome Finland and Sweden as full members of NATO.”…….
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For my English-speaking intel/security people, here's a summary thread re. the GRU espionage case in Sweden that is getting significant media coverage here today:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...320258049.html
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...320258049.html
For my English-speaking intel/security people, here's a summary thread re. the GRU espionage case in Sweden that is getting significant media coverage here today:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...320258049.html
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...320258049.html
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
#Breaking Sweden's prime minister has said Sweden can't meet Turkey's demands for NATO bid, during a security conference.
"Turkey both confirms that we have done what we said we would do, but they also say that they want things that we cannot or do not want to give them," - Sweden PM
"Turkey both confirms that we have done what we said we would do, but they also say that they want things that we cannot or do not want to give them," - Sweden PM
Wht can’t a subset of NATO countries could form a separate “North European Treaty Organization” and invite Finland, Sweden and other like-minded nations to join?
Scale, and the lack of the throw weight of the US of A and the Alliance as a whole.
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Have missed your input.That little squeeze job Mr Erdogan is putting on the Finns and Swedes should surprise nobody.
Interesting to see the Swedes push back a bit.
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Congress to block Turkish F-16 and other purchases until they approve Finnish and Swedish NATO accession.
https://www.defensenews.com/congress...sion-succeeds/
https://www.defensenews.com/congress...sion-succeeds/
Congress to block Turkish F-16 and other purchases until they approve Finnish and Swedish NATO accession.
https://www.defensenews.com/congress...sion-succeeds/
https://www.defensenews.com/congress...sion-succeeds/