Missing yacht
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Tony Bullimore lived for days in an upturned yacht. The Australians made massive efforts to get to him, even before they knew he was alive.
There does not seem to have been any significant effort to investigate the upturned boat in this case?
There does not seem to have been any significant effort to investigate the upturned boat in this case?
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" The Australians made massive efforts to get to him, even before they knew he was alive."
I think it was onetrack that said something along these lines.
The Crew of the HMAS Adelaide was on Xmas leave, the skipper got a call at 0100 hrs and had to sail by 1600 hours the same day !!!. They scratched together a crew at very short notice and set off, the helo embarked at sea when underway. They picked up the French sailor on the way before continuing south towards Antarctica. I think they took 5 - 7 days to get there in some very rough seas from memory. Two other ships, one navy, one private were also used to replenish the HMAS Adelaide at sea which meant she could run at full speed the whole way there and back.
They were 1400 nm south of Perth so at a minimum 2800 nm !
It cost Australia a packet !
They also used 5 x P3 Orions with 6 crew to provide an almost continuous presence over the French Yachtsman,
a total of 158 flying hours.
I think it was onetrack that said something along these lines.
The Crew of the HMAS Adelaide was on Xmas leave, the skipper got a call at 0100 hrs and had to sail by 1600 hours the same day !!!. They scratched together a crew at very short notice and set off, the helo embarked at sea when underway. They picked up the French sailor on the way before continuing south towards Antarctica. I think they took 5 - 7 days to get there in some very rough seas from memory. Two other ships, one navy, one private were also used to replenish the HMAS Adelaide at sea which meant she could run at full speed the whole way there and back.
They were 1400 nm south of Perth so at a minimum 2800 nm !
It cost Australia a packet !
They also used 5 x P3 Orions with 6 crew to provide an almost continuous presence over the French Yachtsman,
a total of 158 flying hours.
Last edited by 500N; 20th May 2014 at 07:32.
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I think they took 5 - 7 days to get there in some very rough seas from memory. Two other ships were also used to replenish the HMAS Adelaide at sea which meant she could run at full speed the whole way there and back.
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I believe that in SAR scenarios one cannot not pick and choose which incidents should be prosecuted as far as possible. Who gets the right to play god/allah/jehovah etc? It just goes with the territory and so long as the lives of those carrying out the mission are not put in danger, then that's what they are there for. Those very operators would probably agree 100% with that.
On a smaller scale it's no different to mountain rescue teams around the world picking ramblers and mountaineers off the hills..
On a smaller scale it's no different to mountain rescue teams around the world picking ramblers and mountaineers off the hills..
Last edited by thunderbird7; 20th May 2014 at 12:19.
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Originally Posted by "Trim Stab
A modern yacht would never pass certification if it was capable of staying upside down, even if partly flooded. Some extreme racing boats used to be so beamy that they had no righting moment when inverted, but these have now all been banned (well except for multi-hulls but that is a different argument).
As for multi's, at least us multi sailors are not under the false preconception that a boat will always self right
It cost Australia a packet !
It also lead to changes in the IMOCA regulations for offshore racing boats and to changes in the routing of the Vendee Globe to prevent sailors from taking excessive risks by routing too far south.
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Lonewolf
Lonewolf
I do not understand what you are implying in your phrase " welcome to 2014 "
Are you saying that standards of basic humanity have slipped in the USA to such an extent that the search was terminated prematurely on cost grounds or that it was put into the "too difficult" category ?
Personally I am hoping for the search by air AND sea to recommence when the weather improves. The people at the sharp end in the coastguard and navy must be itching to get out there . The underlying thought should be that it could be someone in your family still out there.
I do not understand what you are implying in your phrase " welcome to 2014 "
Are you saying that standards of basic humanity have slipped in the USA to such an extent that the search was terminated prematurely on cost grounds or that it was put into the "too difficult" category ?
Personally I am hoping for the search by air AND sea to recommence when the weather improves. The people at the sharp end in the coastguard and navy must be itching to get out there . The underlying thought should be that it could be someone in your family still out there.
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Trim Stab
Re changes, Very true indeed. Australia's SAR changed not long after as well with AMSA being set up in Canberra as the central point for all SAR in this country.
I was not complaining about the cost, just pointing out what a country sometimes has to do as part of a SAR in it's area.
In fact the document some of that info came from highlighted the fact that Australia took it's responsibilities very seriously.
Re changes, Very true indeed. Australia's SAR changed not long after as well with AMSA being set up in Canberra as the central point for all SAR in this country.
I was not complaining about the cost, just pointing out what a country sometimes has to do as part of a SAR in it's area.
In fact the document some of that info came from highlighted the fact that Australia took it's responsibilities very seriously.
Last edited by 500N; 20th May 2014 at 11:27.
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You would think there would be an international fund set up to pay towards the cost of carrying out rescues outside international waters, funded by ship owners and governments the World over with the emphsis on the nearest capable country going to their assistance..
Its sad that costs have now come into the equation, saving lives should never be cost orientated.
Its sad that costs have now come into the equation, saving lives should never be cost orientated.
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This morning, the LAA sent an e-mail to all Members urging them to sign the petition for continuation of SAR Ops by the US. One of the missing crew is an LAA Member. All well, good and commendable but there is a sub note that irritated me, at least. It's a criticism of our politicians for not sending any of our aircraft to join the search. Not a criticism for no longer having a Type usefully capable but for dithering over sending anything.
If aviators and aero engineers can be ignorant of the now possible, the man on the famous Clapham bus must be totally clueless.
If aviators and aero engineers can be ignorant of the now possible, the man on the famous Clapham bus must be totally clueless.
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GBZ
Re the UK sending an aircraft, the thing is, isn't that why you have SAR areas ?
OK, big SAR efforts everyone comes together such as MH370 but if the UK send an aircraft for this one, then the demand will be made again for the next British person in trouble.
And correct me if I am wrong but isn't it a boat that is required, not an aircraft ? You can use any aircraft to fly over the hull but don't we need someone to look inside it ?
Re the UK sending an aircraft, the thing is, isn't that why you have SAR areas ?
OK, big SAR efforts everyone comes together such as MH370 but if the UK send an aircraft for this one, then the demand will be made again for the next British person in trouble.
And correct me if I am wrong but isn't it a boat that is required, not an aircraft ? You can use any aircraft to fly over the hull but don't we need someone to look inside it ?
It seems very quiet on the other side of the Pond. But if I was running the Coastguard might I have a reservation on taking up the search again in case it was discovered that continuing the first search might have brought a more successful outcome. Presumably there will be a (UK) MAIB Inquiry, which might of course comment on the USCG input. I for one hope there will be another search and that, against the odds, it has some success.
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Have a read of this - and relate it to how long Bullimore survived !
"Locator beacons activated by the crew indicated the ship was 1,000 miles east of Massachusetts early Friday, amid 15-foot seas and winds surpassing 50 knots. The air temperature was 59 degrees and the water was 60 degrees, Popiel said.
Based on those conditions, and assuming that best-case emergency equipment was utilized, the Coast Guard estimated they could not have survived more than 20 hours beyond the initial distress call. Crews from North Carolina, Georgia and Canada spent 53 hours searching an area of more than 4,000 square miles. At least one commercial liner, the 1,000-foot Maersk Kure, also took part in those efforts and located an overturned hull that matched the description of the Cheeki Rafiki, but found no sign of the sailors.
“Air and sea crews continued to search throughout the afternoon and night and into the next morning for any small indication of debris or search objects,” Popiel said in a statement. “After more than two days of searching and no indication of surviving crew members, the U.S. Coast Guard made the difficult decision to suspend search efforts.”"
Search called off for 4 Britons on 40-foot yacht missing in mid-Atlantic | Fox News
"Locator beacons activated by the crew indicated the ship was 1,000 miles east of Massachusetts early Friday, amid 15-foot seas and winds surpassing 50 knots. The air temperature was 59 degrees and the water was 60 degrees, Popiel said.
Based on those conditions, and assuming that best-case emergency equipment was utilized, the Coast Guard estimated they could not have survived more than 20 hours beyond the initial distress call. Crews from North Carolina, Georgia and Canada spent 53 hours searching an area of more than 4,000 square miles. At least one commercial liner, the 1,000-foot Maersk Kure, also took part in those efforts and located an overturned hull that matched the description of the Cheeki Rafiki, but found no sign of the sailors.
“Air and sea crews continued to search throughout the afternoon and night and into the next morning for any small indication of debris or search objects,” Popiel said in a statement. “After more than two days of searching and no indication of surviving crew members, the U.S. Coast Guard made the difficult decision to suspend search efforts.”"
Search called off for 4 Britons on 40-foot yacht missing in mid-Atlantic | Fox News
Lonewolf
I do not understand what you are implying in your phrase " welcome to 2014 "
Are you saying that standards of basic humanity have slipped in the USA to such an extent that the search was terminated prematurely on cost grounds or that it was put into the "too difficult" category ?.
I do not understand what you are implying in your phrase " welcome to 2014 "
Are you saying that standards of basic humanity have slipped in the USA to such an extent that the search was terminated prematurely on cost grounds or that it was put into the "too difficult" category ?.
The decision was, it seems, that with the wreck found, nobody around it, and no further evidence of the four sailors after further search with a pretty decent datum, that doing so would not be productive.
If you note what 500N posted just above me, somebody went through a formal process in arriving at that decision.
As I was not in the USCG SAR ops center, as I was not party to whatever discussion went on between American and Canadian (and perhaps other?, Bermuda?) SAR professionals, I am guessing as much as you.
I have expanded my comments in discourse with others since I posted that, please visit those posts to see if your question is answered.
It will be interesting reading if one can ever get the "final report" from this SAR operation. I too am interested in the decision process. I won't speculate further.
To repeat something that maybe you don't understand:
1. A whole lot of things that didn't used to get politicized and attract outrage in this country now do. Welcome to 2014, the age of continual outrage and the drama queen. The world chages, and not always for the better.
2. The political atmosphere in this country has become toxic at the local, state, and federal level.
3. DHS (for whom our Coast Guard work, not DoD) is as subject to the effects of that toxic political environment as any other government agency.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 20th May 2014 at 14:03.
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Just announced on LBC Radio (UK)
The US Coastgurd to resume Search for the 4 missing yacht crew..
Best of luck and hope results are fruitful.
The US Coastgurd to resume Search for the 4 missing yacht crew..
Best of luck and hope results are fruitful.
Interesting. I'll check a few USCG sites and see if they will elaborate.
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The real flaw in the USCG logic for calling the search off is the 20 hour survival calculation. Someone must have assumed they did not make it into a liferaft - an assumption which is hard to understand. The info that the PLB's that were used were switched on in sequence, i.e. one until it's battery failed and then the other, suggests they MAY have made it to the liferaft which surely, given the ingress of water, would have been prepared for immediate use by such an experienced crew.
Keep searching guys....
Keep searching guys....
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I agree, I would love to know the logic behind that 20 hour calculation. The Cheeki Rafiki crew were experienced, knew something was wrong with their yacht, may well have been in dry suits, if not should have had time to get into immersion suits, should have had time to check the liferaft was clear to deploy and had time to trigger 2x satellite beacons some time apart. It would be very unlucky for all four of them to have been simultaneously incapacitated such that none either found sanctuary under the hull or were able to get into the liferaft.
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Praise the Lord
Many thanks to the USCG for restarting the search. God speed in your efforts & many prayers are winging their way across the Atlantic for a successful outcome to your endeavours.
Also many thanks to those who signed the on line petition. I'm sure that the weight of human support has been influential in the decision to resume the search.
Also many thanks to those who signed the on line petition. I'm sure that the weight of human support has been influential in the decision to resume the search.