US and RAF pilots 'had mid-air row' over Norfolk
Are you sure? Top of Page 3 in the Airprox report it states
My mistake, I was a member of the AIRPROX Board for the event that was mentioned in the HQ Air narrative on page 6, I can only blame my own stupidity, humble pie for supper, sorry.
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www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/InformationNotice2014059.pdf
As a civilian DZ Chief Instructor I received this a couple of weeks ago from the CAA.
The CAA don't seem to think 0033 was selected.
Floppy
As a civilian DZ Chief Instructor I received this a couple of weeks ago from the CAA.
The CAA don't seem to think 0033 was selected.
Floppy
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Conversely, all the transiting traffic has to do is alter its heading by 10-15 degrees with about 30 miles to go to the confliction, and all is well. Perhaps it might add a minute or so to your journey. Is that really so difficult?
Floppy
The incident that your CAA Information Notice refers to is as a result of Airprox 2013115 (which was the other airprox between MC130 and GR4 referred to throughout this thread) and on page 3 of Airprox Report 2013115 it does indeed state
However, this thread (and my comment) is about Airprox 2013155 and the information at post #41 is lifted from that Airprox report. The MC130, as far as the Airprox Board are concerned, was squawking 0033.
The incident that your CAA Information Notice refers to is as a result of Airprox 2013115 (which was the other airprox between MC130 and GR4 referred to throughout this thread) and on page 3 of Airprox Report 2013115 it does indeed state
Figure 2 depicts the incident geometry at this point; SSR 3A 3643 was the Tornado, SSR 3A 7000 was the MC130H (my bold)
Many, many years ago, we used to run an F27 from Norwich to Humberside, and frequently were given headings to avoid the fast stuff.
Funnily enough, 2 of us once flew back from Edinburgh to Norwich on that aircraft after a JMC debrief. We knew it was going to be interesting when the undercarriage stopped in the Grand Old Duke of York position on departure as the pneumatic system had run out of puff. But after a few minutes it repressurised, up came the wheels and we accelerated noticeably! Then we were supposed to land at Leeds-Bradford, but after a few attempts we diverted to East Midlands. At the stroke of 22:00, the hosties looked very cheerful - when we asked why, they told us that the delay had put them on some minimum overtime pay rate. "Ah, I see. That'll be 2 large gin and tonic, please!", I said to the number one - and bless her, she duly obliged. Then off to Norwich - only to get bounced by one of our own F-4s....
Worst part of the whole trip was the Norwich to Wattisham road journey -2 of us plus MT driver and our kit squeezed into a mini for 90 minutes....
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Originally Posted by orgASMic
my point is that it should not be necessary to have 2 ATC freqs on the go (the C2 and DZ freqs are clearly necessary for the task at the time). The 2 controllers might give conflicting instructions if they think they are both providing you with a service. Pick one and let the controller do the necessary liaison with other ATC units.
So, on the surface, I understand your concern, but in actuality, it is a non-issue. Bear in mind that neither were providing actual control and weremerely providing some level of service.
In the event of conflicting instructions, the crew would've hopefully had the situational awareness to make a safe decision and advised the agencies involved appropriately.
Originally Posted by party animal
Unless there was a compelling reason for other aircraft to be in that area, that is a very clear NOTAM and by extension, airmanship makes it a very clear avoid.
Originally Posted by higthepig
A hole in the cheese in this incident was that the Herc was not squawking 0033, this has been addressed for future exercises.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Parabellum. Purple airspace is a temporary restriction (IIRC 15 minutes before and 30 minutes after published timings- unless it has changed) - are you saying that on the day and in the area in question there was a Royal Flight in the vicinity - in which case perhaps both parties were in the wrong. Or are you suggesting that Purple Airspace is a permanent fixture - which I do not believe to be the case.
Canadian Break - Sorry, my point was that because due weather and availability of aircraft for jumping there is a constant backlog of people who are either initial or recurrent parachutists, consequently I believe that task should have a high priority when the aircraft is available and the weather is good. I mentioned Purple Airspace to give an indication of how high that priority should be without including the parameters of Purple Airspace, only it's priority.
Red On, Green On
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Clearly the Tonka crew had no nautical awareness. In the maritime world steam gives way to sail, and the more maneuverable vessel gives way to the less maneuverable in most situations. I think the pointy jet should have let the meat bomber continue
BEags,
What a/c was your claim to fame coming into land during the shooting scenes with Goose's wife and kid arriving in VR-57's C-9B?
Was it the Mighty Hunter or the Flying Banana out of interest?
Did Paramount have to re shoot the scene in case of your ship being seen in the background?
Cheers
What a/c was your claim to fame coming into land during the shooting scenes with Goose's wife and kid arriving in VR-57's C-9B?
Was it the Mighty Hunter or the Flying Banana out of interest?
Did Paramount have to re shoot the scene in case of your ship being seen in the background?
Cheers
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Back in the 1990s, the bugbear of policing the Balkans No-Fly Zone was whenever a new USN Carrier Battle Group arrived in Theatre. On one occasion, the new CBG decided to have their own exercise in the Adriatic during the day before they officially joined in. The result was many aircraft infringing the operation's tanker tow lines and even an EW serial when they jammed live IFF over the no-fly zone. The fun started when they joined next day - using USN procedures rather than those published in the optasks/opgens etc. (again many busts of sensitive and active airspace).
The last straw was when the ships entered the operational data link net and instantly changed the identity of everything in the recognised air picture which was not USN to Unknown Assumed Hostile - including all of the allied aircraft within the NFZ and those in transit including transports, tankers etc. Repeated requests for them to follow the correct ID procedures and which documents to use fell onto deaf ears until my Data Link manager threw them off the L11 net. ( From memory, when asked why, he told them that we didn't want another Iranian Airliner thank you very much). About 5 minutes later, a much more cultured American voice arrived on the coordination net, apologised, and we had no further trouble after we let them back in (well - the odd hiccup for a couple of days after shift changes).
The last straw was when the ships entered the operational data link net and instantly changed the identity of everything in the recognised air picture which was not USN to Unknown Assumed Hostile - including all of the allied aircraft within the NFZ and those in transit including transports, tankers etc. Repeated requests for them to follow the correct ID procedures and which documents to use fell onto deaf ears until my Data Link manager threw them off the L11 net. ( From memory, when asked why, he told them that we didn't want another Iranian Airliner thank you very much). About 5 minutes later, a much more cultured American voice arrived on the coordination net, apologised, and we had no further trouble after we let them back in (well - the odd hiccup for a couple of days after shift changes).
chopper2004, I didn't say that we were at NAS Miramar when the scene with Meg Ryan was being filmed. In fact we were there in a VC10K on 25 Oct 1984, which was at least a year before the Top Gun scenes were filmed at Miramar.
(The purpose of our trip was to support F-4J(UK) aircraft for 74(F) Sqn from NAS North Island to the UK and to get some useful training in US procedures. OP TIGER TRAIL 3 - it was epic fun!)
(The purpose of our trip was to support F-4J(UK) aircraft for 74(F) Sqn from NAS North Island to the UK and to get some useful training in US procedures. OP TIGER TRAIL 3 - it was epic fun!)
Last edited by BEagle; 6th Aug 2014 at 12:09. Reason: A date error as pointed out by melmothw
In fact we were there in a VC10K on 25 Oct 2004, which was at least a year before the Top Gun scenes were filmed at Miramar.
My apologies, Beags - sorry misread your statement and thought on average back then it took 2 years to put together any groom movie!
Take it there were very noticeable differences in airspace management! And weather slightly better for sure even in that month?
Cheers
Take it there were very noticeable differences in airspace management! And weather slightly better for sure even in that month?
Cheers
